ANOTHER starter clutch question

[willie]

I pulled the starter clutch on my '83 1100G tonite because I was in there to replace my stator and thought I may as well take a look at it. What I noticed is that the starter clutch pins have caused bumps in the outer cover. Fortunately, there aren't any cracks (yet), the bolts were tight and the pins and springs are intact. My question is:
Is there a way to prevent the pins from causing any more damage to the outer cover? My thought is, if the pins are denting the cover from hitting it so hard, would it help to put some hard rubber plugs at the bottom of each hole to absord the impact? Even though the plugs would have to be pretty thin, I figure some cushion has got to be better than no cuchion at all.
Your thoughts and opinions please.
Willie

[spyug]

I'm wondering if you could post some pics for us. it might be easier for some of us to comment if we can see what you are referring to.

Without seeing it, I would suspect that something needs to be rebuilt or changed out since you would think that this would not be a common occurence or the factory would have put cushions in, no?

I'd be interested in seeing what we're talking about.

Cheers,
Spyug

[Matchless]

I pulled the starter clutch on my '83 1100G tonite because I was in there to replace my stator and thought I may as well take a look at it. What I noticed is that the starter clutch pins have caused bumps in the outer cover. Fortunately, there aren't any cracks (yet), the bolts were tight and the pins and springs are intact. My question is:
Is there a way to prevent the pins from causing any more damage to the outer cover? My thought is, if the pins are denting the cover from hitting it so hard, would it help to put some hard rubber plugs at the bottom of each hole to absord the impact? Even though the plugs would have to be pretty thin, I figure some cushion has got to be better than no cuchion at all.
Your thoughts and opinions please.
Willie

Willie,
Those bumps are caused by a locating pin with a nipple towards the inside for the roller springs. For some reason the rear of that pin is square to its length, but due to the angle of the guide hole it now touches the sheet metal shroud around the outside at an angle. Eventually this sharp edge will punch out a round circle of sheetmetal. The locating pins and springs will be ejected and land up hanging on the magnets of the rotor. Sometimes damaging your stator as well.

[willie]

Yeah, the shape of those pins certainly concentrates the force in one little spot. Lousy design, IMO, and one that should be improved upon. Maybe my rubber idea isn't feasible. Perhaps a nylon plug would do the trick and hold up better. I'm thinking that, if the nylon insert was a tight fit in the bottom of the hole, maybe it would provide an acceptable cushion. I also wonder how much room there is for an insert.
I've seen this problem with both starter clutches I've examined so it can't be all that unusual.
I'll try to take a decent picture to post so others will know what we're discussing.
Willie

[Matchless]

Willie,
The hole is wider towards the outer edge and the spring locating pins are put in from the outside, then the sheet metal outer is crimped around the outer to hold them in. They also have a center hole which I assume is a sort of oil journal most likely to prevent a hydraulic lock up.
You could most likely just weld them and drill a small hole through the weld, but then what do I know!

[blowerbike]

Willie,
The hole is wider towards the outer edge and the spring locating pins are put in from the outside, then the sheet metal outer is crimped around the outer to hold them in. They also have a center hole which I assume is a sort of oil journal most likely to prevent a hydraulic lock up.
You could most likely just weld them and drill a small hole through the weld, but then what do I know!

that is correct.
you need a small hole in each weld so that the plunger can "breathe".
good suggestion!

[willie]

Willie,
The hole is wider towards the outer edge and the spring locating pins are put in from the outside, then the sheet metal outer is crimped around the outer to hold them in. They also have a center hole which I assume is a sort of oil journal most likely to prevent a hydraulic lock up.
You could most likely just weld them and drill a small hole through the weld, but then what do I know!

I'll take another look and I agree that a hole, or some "vent" is needed, to prevent a hydraulic lockup but, I don't recall seeing a hole. If that's the case, the gap between the pin and the bore provides the vent. And, if that is the case, a nylon plug/cushion at the bottom is feasible.
I do recall seeing a hole in the side of the housing that extends into the bore and wondered what its purpose was. I bet thats the "vent". I know the pins are solid. So they're not providing the vent. Hmmm.
I'll post again this evening and try to include a picture.
I really appreciate the responses and I'm hoping that together we can improve upon the design.
Willie

[blowerbike]

the pins are hollow(springs go inside) and i believe they have a small hole in the very end.

[willie]

the pins are hollow(springs go inside) and i believe they have a small hole in the very end.

Right again, BB. I just took a closer look and pics too (but they're too big to post). My guess is the small hole in the end is to prevent hydraulic lockup. The open end makes for a thin-walled tube with, almost, a capped end. Being a hardened pin, that open end concentrates alot of force on a very small surface. No wonder it distorts the outer housing. Unfortunately, based upon my crude measurements, the depth of the hub bore isn't much more than the length of the pin. Maybe a 1/16". That doesn't leave any room, IMO, for any kind of insert like I had previously mentioned. Other than just accepting things the way they are, I can't think of any feasible solutions. Can anyone else?
Thanks again for monitoring and responding to this post.
Willie

[willie]

I hate to beat a dead horse but I've come up with an idea to prevent starter clutch failure that I'd like to bounce off anyone willing to respond. In light of the danger associated with pins punching through the outer housing. My idea is to have a steel ring machined that would be a snug, if not, press fit onto the outer housing. The ring would effectively increase the wall thickness of the housing and prevent cracks or punch-throughs.
Your thoughts are encourgaged and appreciated.
Willie

[Matchless]

I hate to beat a dead horse but I've come up with an idea to prevent starter clutch failure that I'd like to bounce off anyone willing to respond. In light of the danger associated with pins punching through the outer housing. My idea is to have a steel ring machined that would be a snug, if not, press fit onto the outer housing. The ring would effectively increase the wall thickness of the housing and prevent cracks or punch-throughs.
Your thoughts are encourgaged and appreciated.
Willie

Willie,
A quick and dirty approach would be to even (tap in) the bent out bits so that that they do not allow any movement of the pins and then just weld a nice blob over a slightly bigger area on each of the pins. Even slightly denting in the shroud towards the "deeper" edge of the slanted pin before welding will provide more "surface area" to push against the back of the pin. I am not sure if any vibration due to balancing will be noticeable. Machining of the welding to leave an even heavier and thicker bit over the pins will help.
Guess how mine is done!

Your idea of putting a ring around the complete starter clutch should also work well, but will need machining, freezing the starter clutch and heating the ring to ensure it does not come off during use.