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550 Igniter interchange success!!!!!!!!

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    550 Igniter interchange success!!!!!!!!

    I am please to announce that after many weeks of research, fiddling and farting, I have succeeded in retrofitting an igniter and signal generator from both an 83 700 and an 83 750 and getting spark in my 83 550E.

    This is primary information. I have not yet attempted to run the engine as I have one bum coil and I suspect the plug caps and wires need to be replaced as the spark is fairly weak but it is definitely there.

    At this point, I don't know if this setup will work when the engine runs as the ignition advance curve is controlled by the igniter and will likely be somewhat off. I will report on that as soon as I can. I will also put together a tutorial in due course.

    For the time being, to recap, this mod is suitable for 83 and up 550s and requires and igniter and the corresponding signal generator and rotor from an 83 and up 700 or 750. I suspect those from an 850 or 1100 may also work but have not, as yet, tried them.

    The igniter box will plug right in to the harness and of course its own signal generator plug. The most difficult part of the project is fitting the pickup coil plate from the 750 to the engine case of the 550. The stock plate is 80mm in diameter whereas the 700/750s are 84mm. To get an aligned fit (i.e. where the hole in the plate correctly aligns with the end of the crankshaft) it is necessary to elongate the stock mounting holes (toward the center of the plate) and remove the locating post on the engine case that is at the 2 o'clock position (I used a die-grinder).

    Now before working on the pickup plate, it is necessary to remove the pickup coils and this can be a tich difficult as the screws holding them are "locktited" in and they are slotted screws with wider than normal slots. You will likey need to fab up a screw driver to fit. It is also necessary to remove the magnets under the pickups and be warned they are brittle and break easily so I would not recommend using an impact driver to loosen up the screws.

    When reassembling everything be sure to use red locktite on all screws. The rotor from the 750 will fit right to the crank with no modifications and locktite should be used on it as well.

    The pickup coils from the 7 series have 2 wires coming from each and another (yellow/green) that is bolted to the lower plate locating screw. This is a ground lead. There is no connector in the harness so it will be necessary to connect it to the frame or the battery. I chose the battery.

    That's about it but one further point of information. During my research, I was informed by Boyer Bransden Ignitions in England that the reason so many of the stock igniters failed is due to the fact that these models had charging systems that were prone to putting out over voltage. In this regard, I would suggest the charging system be checked immediately after the bike is running and if its found to be out of spec (over 15 volts) I'd shut it down and not run it until that is corrected.

    As this project was helped by a lot of information and input from many members I would like to thank all who answered my queries, made suggestions or gave encouragement. I couldn't have done it without you. Special thanks to my buds SVSooke and Ranger who provided me the 750 and 700 series parts that made it possible. Thanks guys.

    As soon as I have new coils and wires I'll get the engine running and report further.

    Stay tuned.

    Cheers,
    Spyug

    #2
    Show us some pictures of the setup please.

    Oh and you can refer to the spark advance in the manuals on basscliff`s website.

    The gs550`s is noted in the FSM so I annot imagine Suzuki leaving it out of the 750`s

    Comment


      #3
      The 1100 ignitor is basically the same but I believe the advance curve is a little slower.

      If you get pre-ignition with the 700 box you might want to try an 1100 one
      1980 GS1000G - Sold
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      1980 GS550E - Fixed & given to a friend
      1983 GS750ES Special - Sold
      2009 KLR 650 - Sold - gone to TX!
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        #4
        Nicely done Spyug! Fingers crossed the advance curve matches close enough to be 100% successful.

        Although Dan's suggestion could be a good backup if it's a bit too aggressive...
        1982 GS450E - The Wee Beastie
        1984 GSX750S Katana 7/11 - Kit Kat - BOTM May 2020

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          #5
          Thank you,happy to help.Could have thrown a coil in that box if I'd known.

          Comment


            #6
            If you get pre-ignition with the 700 box you might want to try an 1100 one
            Very good to know. I'm trying to find the ignition timing information from the various manuals to see where I might stand. I'm also working on a tutorial write up for Cliff's site so a fair bit of "administration" to do.

            Could have thrown a coil in that box if I'd known.
            I may have to take you up on that. I'm going to check with my pro-wrench tomorrow and see what he has in the used parts bin.

            Still lots to do but I'm back on track.

            Stay tuned for further updates.

            Cheers all,
            Spyug
            Last edited by Guest; 05-15-2011, 10:29 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              550
              11 degrees BTDC below 1650 RPM
              31 degrees BTDC above 3000 RPM
              750
              13 degrees BTDC below 1500 RPM
              35 Degrees BTDC above 2350 RPM

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks Jeep, I just found that myself. I'm thinking thats close enough at least on initial advance but i'm wondering about full advance. It seems to come on quickly with the 750 box.

                I was trying to look at the 1100 specs but can't get anything down from Cliff's site. Can you or anyone else find anything for me? I'd just like to compare that as well.

                Thanks for pulling that together for me.

                Cheers,
                Spyug

                Comment


                  #9
                  an 1100 box will not plug in.
                  if this works out and you need a slower advance curve...an 1150 box will plug and play on a 700/750.
                  being a smaller CC i would think the 700/750 box would be more closely matched.
                  keep us posted.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    being a smaller CC i would think the 700/750 box would be more closely matched
                    Thanks, that's what I was thinking but just wanted to look into it on the basis of Salty's post. At this point, I'm keen on getting as much info as I can. Like the saying states, "Knowlwege is power"

                    I'm hoping I can score another coil from my pro wrench tomorrow as I'm anxious now to hear some engine sounds.

                    I'll keep you informed.

                    cheers,
                    spyug

                    Comment


                      #11
                      So I finally got around to taking some pics today. The first one is the comparison between the signal generators and rotors. The one on the left is from the 550. The other one is actually from Ranger's 700 but it is identical tothat from the 750.
                      Last edited by Guest; 05-15-2011, 04:35 PM.

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                        #12
                        This is the 750 igniter installed. If you look closely at the right side pickup you can see where the locater post was removed. Lower down at the attaching screw you can see the plate is "shaved" to fit. The red rubber bands were used to hold the magnets in place when reinstalling. The magnets are very brittle and these had both broken. Also notice the size of the screw slots, they are way larger than any other I have run across and needed reshaping of an old large screw driver to fit. As the screws are set in red locktite a good fit is really important to get enough torque to get them out. Do not try and use an impact driver as you will shater the magnets.

                        I should also mention that the rotor which is fixed to the crankshaft is also locktited with red. It will not come out (at least in my case) without an application of heat. Locktite specifies 500 deg F. Before you try it, I would strongly recommend you remove the pick-up coils first or you will melt the plastic and perhaps fry the wires. See the bubbling on the plastic of the 550's in the first picture above.
                        Last edited by Guest; 05-15-2011, 04:40 PM.

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                          #13
                          Oops sorry wrong photo but you can see where the hole for the upper screw was enlarged and the plate trimmed to fit.

                          Here's the actual igniter:

                          Comment


                            #14
                            did the 750 pick ups screw to the existing 550 plate/holes or did you have to re drill/tap for them to fit?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Does anyone have the hard numbers for the difference in advance?
                              I'd use a degree wheel to set the idle or get a timing light with the advance curve settings.
                              If you hear pinging don't ride it.
                              1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
                              1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

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