Bad to. Please Help.

[JStones]

Miked-
Thanks. My understanding is the yellow/green wire traces solenoid to headlight bucket to button. I know there is a clutch switch but Ive cleaned that up real nice.

If I can start it up with a screwdriver across the solenoid does that make the solenoid good or bad? I have a hard time with it being as I have already replaced it. Should I get another right hand control?

[miked]

morning

>> My understanding is the yellow/green wire traces solenoid to headlight bucket to button

yes, it splits in the bucket. you can test for 12v on either of the green/yellow bullet connectors with the key on, clutch in, start button depressed

take the run/start handlebar assy apart, and pull the metal cover with 3 small screws it off. turn the ign key to on. you should have 12v on all 3 possible locations -- the top pin of the run/stop, the lower pin on the stop/run assy and the rivet with orange white

I've rigged up an extra 5' length of wire with an alligator clip on the end to one of those $4 12v test lights. alligator clip goes to batt -, use probe on test light to hunt around for 12v. easier for me vs using a meter, I can walk all around the bike without having to worry about meter lead lengths, and I'm only testing for 12v. If I need resistance checks then I crack out the meter.

>> If I can start it up with a screwdriver across the solenoid does that make the solenoid good or bad

neither, the screwdriver is making a direct connection between batt and starter motor effectively taking the solenoid out of the circuit.

a better test is to disconnect the red cable to the starter motor at the solenoid side (10mm nut). put a jumper with 12v on the soldered spot where the green/yellow is and listen for the click. click = solenoid good, no click = problem. iirc solenoid is grounded thru the frame, bike not in front of me, someone would need to confirm/deny this. ie. no click = either a bad solenoid or a ground problem preventing the internal solenoid relay from working.

>> Should I get another right hand control

no, lets figure out what the actual problem is vs just throwing parts at it. this is pretty simple, but you just need to be methodical and walk your way thru the circuit

[JStones]

Miked,
Thanks for the excellent reply. When I get home tonight I will test and post results!

[JStones]

I had 12 v at all 3 locations within the switch.

Cable running to the starter from the solenoid on mine is black... dont think that matters but thought Id note that.

SOLENOID SETUP


Left side contains power from Battery and Main Fuse

Middle is the green/yellow wire soldered.

Right is a black cable running to the starter.

Black/White Ground wire coming from wiring harness to right of solenoid and connecting to solenoid to frame screw.

Had bike idling last night but thru use of screwdriver.

I wanted to do your solenoid test but I didnt fully understand it.

[Nessism]

The solenoid is a high current relay. The green/yellow wire is the trigger to engage the solenoid/relay, and allow current to flow to your starter. If you don't have any power at the green/yellow when pressing the starter button the solenoid/relay will never engage.

I suggest you trace the green/yellow circuit starting at the starter button. There needs to be power at the switch and then it flows from there. Tracing the circuit with your volt meter shouldn't be too hard.

[miked]

>> I had 12 v at all 3 locations within the switch.

ok, good. that eliminates the R side control assy as the possible problem

now into the headlight bucket to test the wiring there between the output of the start button, the clutch safety switch and the green/yellow wire to the solenoid.

pop the trim ring off of the front of the headlight and pull the light/ring assy - 2 phillips screws at 4 and 8 o'clock on the ring, there is a tang at the very top that you'll need to clear in order to remove the ring. lift the bottom away from the bike so that you are creating a space on the lower half of the bucket and the tang should clear

trace the 2 wires in the sheath from the underside of the clutch into the headlight bucket and you'll find 2 bullet connectors at the end.

the bullet connector that connects to the grn/yellow that heads into the harness goes to the starter solenoid

the bullet connector that connects to a 3 wire sheath with 2 orange/white wires comes from the run/stop/start wiring on the R control assy.

check for 12v on each bullet with ign on, run/stop to run, clutch in, starter button pressed.

you *should* have 12v on the 3 wire sheath bullet since you had 12v on all 3 connections inside of the R control assy

if have 12v on the 3 wire sheath bullet connector but not on the bullet that heads into the harness then your safety switch on the clutch is no good somehow.

if you have 12v on both bullets then check the resistance between the grn/yellow bullet coming off the clutch safety switch that heads into the harness, and the green/yellow on the starter solenoid. (key off)

report back when you know more

>> I wanted to do your solenoid test but I didnt fully understand it.

the starter solenoid contains a relay inside of it. when you activate the relay it allows power to flow between the battery and the starter, just like you did when you shorted the batt/starter with the screwdriver. in a perfect world when the green/yellow on the starter solenoid has 12v on it the relay closes/activates and power flows to the starter and your bike turns over. it will only start if the key is on, but you can turn it over with the screwdriver, or by putting 12v onto the green/yellow. so if you run a wire/jumper between batt + and the green/yellow on the solenoid the starter should turn over or the solenoid should click. let me know if this is still confusing,

if you can test this by putting 12v onto the green/yellow and seeing if it causes the starter to work and report back then we can check one more thing off.

so far we know that you are getting power through the R control assy, and we know that the starter works.

next in line is the clutch safety switch. but we're testing the solenoid as well, sorta testing the starter circuit from each end.

we're close

[JStones]

Miked,
My dad is stopping by the house tonight. Ill post my results. Figured one man could not accurately test in the wires in the lamp while holding clutch and pressing start button. Again, thanks for all the help.

[miked]

> Again, thanks for all the help

no problem, know what a pita it is when your bike isn't right. I'll be sucking on the teet for some help here soon, just trying to give back where I can. let me know how it goes

[JStones]

Results:

First up, I found that the previous owner had done the clutch bypass and just never removed the clutch switch wiring. So this whole time Ive been pulling in a clutch to start when I didnt need to. So that answers test 1. I did clean this up.

Second, I had 12 v at the harness with the orange/white, and yellow green wires. It was in a green harness that ran to the Right hand assembly.

Third, The solenoid test. I Took a few types of material to try and make this happen. Wire, Metal hanger etc. When touching the positive terminal to the green and yellow wire. Nothing happened.

[earlfor]

Third, The solenoid test. I Took a few types of material to try and make this happen. Wire, Metal hanger etc. When touching the positive terminal to the green and yellow wire. Nothing happened.

The green/yellow wire is the exciter lead that comes from your starter button. It energizes the electro magnet in the relay that then completes the internal circuit between the large primary terminals that complete the heavy duty circuit to supply power to the starter motor. The green/yellow wire is normally off (an open circuit/not powered) and powered by 12v+ when you press the starter button. One main terminal on the starter relay is always hot because it is wired directly to battery. The other main terminal is connected to the starter. Forgetting the starter button, if you jump the two main terminals (connect them), the starter will turn over regardless of whether the ignition is on or not. The engine will not start without the ignition on, but the starter should crank the engine over.
If it does not, the relay is bad. It it does turn over, the exciter wire is not powered. In this case, you can check that by temporarily taking a jumper wire from battery positive and briefly connecting the other end to the yell/green wire on the solenoid. The starter should engage. If it does, then the problem is in your handle bar switch or the power supply to it. If the starter does not engage, then the solenoid is faulty.

Earl

[JStones]

Back to Square one.

Had a mechanic look at it and after doing a long list of readings on the multimeter he concluded it was the right hand controls. I got the part in yesterday and it was no change. So now I have a new solenoid and a new right hand controls. The clutch switch is bypassed. Whats left? Where do I go from here? Rest is just wiring right?

[JStones]

Posting to bump this from page 2 to page 1

[miked]

I'd go for a grounding problem on the starter solenoid that would make it so that the internal solenoid relay would become inop. Not exactly sure how to better ground the solenoid, I'm out of town so I can't test something up for you. You've already said that putting 12v onto the green/yellow on the solenoid did nothing (no spark when touched), and we know we have 12v in the headlight bucket on the other end of the green/yellow (iirc) so that helps make my case about a ground problem

Not sure why the mechanic had you order a right control, we'd already proven that good with the test for 12v on all 3 positions.

[miked]

any news? (more text to hit the 10 char req'd to post)

[JStones]

I ran a ground wire from behind the solenoid to the negative battery terminal. That didnt work. Still nothing when I hit that switch.