quick starter relay question

[cableguy]

OK I installed my test solenoid, and now the starter goes clickety-click, which it didn't before. At least my diagnosis of bad solenoid was accurate, but now I need to go through everything and determine why the battery was so drained. I hooked up the tender and got the volts up to 12v, and when I hit the starter button it dropped to 5.6v, and the starter didn't rotate.

Next step is to start at the beginning of BassCliff's series of inspections and checks, and see where I land. Thanks everyone for the advice.

[2BRacing]

I hooked up the tender and got the volts up to 12v, and when I hit the starter button it dropped to 5.6v, and the starter didn't rotate.

It looks like your battery needs to be replaced. This voltage drop is just way too large. Have your battery load-tested at a battery centre. You did say it was a new battery late last season. However, if it has not been on a tender during the off-season, it lost too much of its charge and sulphated. Very difficult to recover to normal capacity once that has happened. The load test will confirm if the battery is still good or not.

[chuckycheese]

I highly doubt it.

OK I installed my test solenoid, and now the starter goes clickety-click, which it didn't before. At least my diagnosis of bad solenoid was accurate, but now I need to go through everything and determine why the battery was so drained..

As I first said, I highly doubt it!! You heard clicking before and you hear clicking now. I think you've now got 2 good solenoids and, most likely, one bad battery...and possibly some charging issues.

(Hint: Regarding the 'click' you're hearing: 2 different types of solenoids sound differently (just as 2 different types of horns sound differently). I doubt you'll take my advice but I'd suggest you connect your starter to a known, decent power source in order to see that it's working properly. It will only take a few minutes and then you can (could) rule it completely out of the equation. Good luck!

[cableguy]

2Bracing---> It was on a tender over the winter, And I've had no problems thus far this season, just sitting in the driveway, and I will sometimes go a week between rides
It does warrant a trip to get it tested though.

Chucky--> I still think my first solenoid is bad (no volts on the starter side with button pressed), and after I go through the whole system I'll see where things are at.

[posplayr]

if you had that battery on a charger for any amount of time, and it is dropping to 5Volts it is bad.

Want to just get a feel for how the charging is working? Do a Quick_Test

[chuckycheese]

2Bracing--->
Chucky--> I still think my first solenoid is bad (no volts on the starter side with button pressed), and after I go through the whole system I'll see where things are at.

Well, it might be but I haven't changed my mind, as of yet! If you're now getting power on the 'starter side', that's all the more reason so try a different power source to see if your starter is working properly. Try the easy stuff first; after awhile, you'll figure out why that's a good idea.

Oh, and listen to Posplayr.....he knows what he's talking about when it comes to electrics!

[cableguy]

One step closer to goodness

This is the back of the r/r. I cleaned the contacts but I think the connector plug is trashed so I crimped new insulated females and marked on the r/r which goes where. Of course I can use the old plug if need be. This could very well have been contributing to the wierdness going on. Now on to checking every other connection, then stator check and see what happens. I did have the battery checked, and even though one cell was low, it tested good under load. I might have caught this in time.

[JEEPRUSTY]

Actually, that only tells you that the coil in the solenoid is working.

The contacts that actually 'make' the circuit to the starter could be bad, not allowing current to flow, even though you hear the "click".




See my message just above. Yes, you can get the "click" without getting voltage on the output terminal. It's rare, but still possible.

.

[cableguy]

Cleaned up ready for testing

[posplayr]

Cleaned up ready for testing

well it looks pretty, but the proof will be in the voltage drop measurements . It doesn't really look like you etched those spades. Did they get any dielectric grease?

[posplayr]

This is the back of the r/r. I cleaned the contacts but I think the connector plug is trashed so I crimped new insulated females and marked on the r/r which goes where. Of course I can use the old plug if need be. This could very well have been contributing to the wierdness going on. Now on to checking every other connection, then stator check and see what happens. I did have the battery checked, and even though one cell was low, it tested good under load. I might have caught this in time.

Just so you guys know, seeing this picture (the long neglected green corroded contacts on Red with the obvious heat damage) is the equivalent of dumping sand into your valve cover.

It is lucky if it did not damage the battery, stator as well as the R/R

[cableguy]

I used a wire brush to clean them but the grease will go on after I do the stator test, just to be less messy. I was going to test the stator from here but maybe I'll grease them and test from the other end. That way Ill know that those connections are good.

[cableguy]

The more you look the more you find......

OK I finally had some this morning to check things out, and found more signs of previous-owner-itis.

This was the plug to the igniter. All that covered these twists was 2 turns of electrical tape.



Next, I found and deleted the harness extension wires from the stator to the r/r. Now the stator runs directly to the r/r. One of the factory connectors seemed loose but now is not an issue. Then I inspected/repairedevery other wire and connector. I removed the starter and the positive wire and found this crispy critter. It wasn't totally burnt inside but now I think starting to get an idea of where my problem is


IMG]

Tested the starter by hooking up to 12v power source and found that it turned pretty slow with a sligt grinding sound, then when I tapped it with a hammer the shaft Rpms tripled. Took apart the starter and found a really burnt smell but I'm not sure if this looks bad or not. I don't know what bad looks like but connections look good and brushes/commutator look OK (?)



Ideas for what next? I was thinking a rebuild kit at the very least but what else should I check?

[2BRacing]

You're doing well to check all wires and fix poor connections. Your "before" photos should be recorded in a manual for "How NOT to do electrics!" and added to BassCliff's site - wow, just about the worst condition of R/R connections I've ever seen, as well as just "twisted together and taped" connections. Nice job on replacing connectors and doing the job properly.

I'm not an expert, but on your starter, the bushes/bearings could be worn. At first glance the armature does not look too bad - clean up the copper part where the brushes run and "undercut" between the copper segments with a hacksaw blade. The burnt smell you noted might come from the field coils (which are not in your photo). You may find tests in the workshop manual.

EDIT: Did not see your other thread on starter rebuild before I posted this.

[cableguy]

I did clean the armature with emory cloth, and that is now shiny. I don't think a hacksaw will fit in between, but I'll definitely clean out the spaces in between.

Field coils? Is that what the armature fits into? I did clean that out with a rag, and as far as I can tell there's no damage.