Newby with a charge circuit question :)

[Guest]

Hi GS Resourcers

Newby here with an '82 GS1100G project bike with 30k miles on it. It runs but badly due to the inlet rubbers needing replacement. But at least it does run! It'll make a nice touring bike when I've got it all together again and running sweet.

Hoping someone can answer a quick question about the charger output -

Will it provide enough juice to run a pair of 55w driving lights on top of all the normal lighting?

Thanks in advance. Looking forward to joining in the GS Resource forum

[Nessism]

I don't believe the normal charging system can deal with 110 W of additional load.

[GelandeStrasse]

Thanks for the reply Nessism.

Are there any common upgrades for the charger? You'll have to forgive my idiot questions, this is my first old Jap bike except for a few little ones like the GT185 and Yam RD's. More familiar with the other type of GS.

I guess I'll use hyper bright LED's instead if not.

[Nessism]

There are high power stators you can install, but then you should install a series R/R to manage the power otherwise you could cook your new stator. Unfortunately, these parts are not cheap so guess it depends on how bad you want the lights.

[GelandeStrasse]

Not that badly, the bike only cost me $320ca

I just want a functioning & healthy bike close to its original condition.

LED's it is then.

Cheers - thumbs up smiley

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. GelandeStrauss,

The stock electrical system on these old Suzuki bikes are not built for a lot of extras. The Hyperlites LEDs should work fine though. It's always a good idea to make sure your charging system is working as well as it can. See below.

Let me dump a TON if information on you and share some GS lovin'.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...



Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[posplayr]

I don't believe the normal charging system can deal with 110 W of additional load.

Ed going by the numbers I published before on SERIES v.s. SHUNT R/R's the difference in current in the stator was 15 amps (SERIES) v.s. about 27 amps (SHUNT) .

That suggests that there are 12 amps of additional current available at 3500 RPM and above for a load. 12 amps reserve compared to the 15 amps average (required shoudl eb same as SERIES measurement) means there is plenty of power available once you get to 3500 RPM.

[GelandeStrasse]

Thanks for the excellent mega-welcome and the mountain of info!

Looks like I have some serious reading to do!

Here's the only pic I have of my bike (not me! ) as it stands right now, missing bits an' all . . . .

[koolaid_kid]

Ed going by the numbers I published before on SERIES v.s. SHUNT R/R's the difference in current in the stator was 15 amps (SERIES) v.s. about 27 amps (SHUNT) .

That suggests that there are 12 amps of additional current available at 3500 RPM and above for a load. 12 amps reserve compared to the 15 amps average (required shoudl eb same as SERIES measurement) means there is plenty of power available once you get to 3500 RPM.

Not contesting your numbers, but that really takes it close to the limit IMHO. Unless the charging system is immaculate, I (personally) would hesistate to add those lights. One, yes. Two, hmmm.
The 80-81 1100E (which shares stators with the G IIRC) is rated at 230 Watts according to this article: http://www.cbxclub.com/davespage/mcy80-11.html

[posplayr]

Not contesting your numbers, but that really takes it close to the limit IMHO. Unless the charging system is immaculate, I (personally) would hesistate to add those lights. One, yes. Two, hmmm.
The 80-81 1100E (which shares stators with the G IIRC) is rated at 230 Watts according to this article: http://www.cbxclub.com/davespage/mcy80-11.html

I think the rated power of 230 watts in the manuals s actually more representative of the standard electrical loads than the charging system output capacity. If the R/R was running at max capacity then it would be not shunting off so much excess current.

At idle, the 100W load would be too much, it is only after the regulator is near full regulation that there would be no issues.

I live in what is considered a warm part of the country, but I heard alot of the eastern guys run plenty of heating accessories.

[koolaid_kid]

I think we both agree that the overall effect would be that the R/R would not be shunting off much, if at all. This may actually be better for the system!
I find the overall ouput of the system to be a bit nebulous. Last week I did install one of those LED "voltmeters" from the U.K. (off eBay). Once it reaches 13.2V, it turns solid green, unless it sees over voltage (which mine has not done). There also appears to be a timer involved, in that it must see a certain state for some defined period of time before it changes colours. This is very normal in the s/w world, so the user is not bombarded with changing colours
Somewhere around 2000 rpm, it turns solid green. This is an indicator that everyone is happy and we are running off the R/R output, charging the battery if it needs it. This seems to correspond with your left graph.
AFA the right graph, I would expect the temps to drop.
However, I would be concerned about the time at 3500 and above that would be required to charge the battery for the times it spent below 3500 rpm.
Just thinking out loud, only a real world test would provide an answer close to the truth (every single system differs in some minute way).

[posplayr]

I think we both agree that the overall effect would be that the R/R would not be shunting off much, if at all. This may actually be better for the system!
I find the overall ouput of the system to be a bit nebulous. Last week I did install one of those LED "voltmeters" from the U.K. (off eBay). Once it reaches 13.2V, it turns solid green, unless it sees over voltage (which mine has not done). There also appears to be a timer involved, in that it must see a certain state for some defined period of time before it changes colours. This is very normal in the s/w world, so the user is not bombarded with changing colours
Somewhere around 2000 rpm, it turns solid green. This is an indicator that everyone is happy and we are running off the R/R output, charging the battery if it needs it. This seems to correspond with your left graph.
AFA the right graph, I would expect the temps to drop.
However, I would be concerned about the time at 3500 and above that would be required to charge the battery for the times it spent below 3500 rpm.
Just thinking out loud, only a real world test would provide an answer close to the truth (every single system differs in some minute way).

you would need to turn off the load when idling and switch it on when udner way. Watching a voltmeter wouldl help decide when to do that.

BTW, the graph is real data as measured on a Electrosport rotor GS11000ED using FET and SERIES R/Rs. The primary limiting factor in power output is the rotor magnetics. Obviously there will be some differences between electrical systems for different model bikes.

[koolaid_kid]

Understood, which raises the question: which rotor? I am currently (ouch, a pun) running an Electrosport rotor on the GS. They (Electrosport) claim "This heavy duty stator can be used as a higher output replacement for the OE stator. Output is about 20% more than the OE stator provides." So are we looking at 230W x 1.20 ~= 275W? That would certainly give the OP more headroom, and make the mod more acceptable.
I wonder if the switching on and off could be automated, seems like a good job for a relay...
My comment on differences is actually more general. I work on lots of bikes and cars. And I can almost always spot small differences. It just happens, it is not an exact world.

[posplayr]

Understood, which raises the question: which rotor? I am currently (ouch, a pun) running an Electrosport rotor on the GS. They (Electrosport) claim "This heavy duty stator can be used as a higher output replacement for the OE stator. Output is about 20% more than the OE stator provides." So are we looking at 230W x 1.20 ~= 275W? That would certainly give the OP more headroom, and make the mod more acceptable.
I wonder if the switching on and off could be automated, seems like a good job for a relay...
My comment on differences is actually more general. I work on lots of bikes and cars. And I can almost always spot small differences. It just happens, it is not an exact world.

did you mean to type that?

[bakalorz]

Hi GS Resourcers

Newby here with an '82 GS1100G project bike with 30k miles on it. It runs but badly due to the inlet rubbers needing replacement. But at least it does run! It'll make a nice touring bike when I've got it all together again and running sweet.

Hoping someone can answer a quick question about the charger output -

Will it provide enough juice to run a pair of 55w driving lights on top of all the normal lighting?

Thanks in advance. Looking forward to joining in the GS Resource forum

FWIW, I was interested in the same question, and actually tested mine by adding some loads to it ... various combinations of extra lights ...
With the stock stator I only had about 4-6 amps (55-85 watts) of extra current available, I believe it was at 3500rpm (4 amps) and 5000 rpm (6 amps) ... thats only one driving light.

My opinion for what its worth, LED headlights are not that bright unless you spend hundreds of $.

A MUCH more effective solution is a HID headlight.
It has to be a real hid, which will use a ballast. (not just one of the HID look bulbs)
2-3 times as bright as a halogen light, and actually uses an amp or 2 less current, that you can put to additional marker or tail lights.