Basics First-Actual Wiring Doesn't Match Diagram

[snowman51]

Hi Guys,

Got lucky and bought an 83 GS300LD with only 3,700 miles on it that had been garaged for forever for only $100. Looks like someone tried to jimmy the ignition at one time because when I removed the ignition to get a new key the local locksmith told me it looked like someone had used a screwdriver to try and start it once. The locksmith sold me a blank that turns the ignition on and off. I then went to ebay and got a pre-cut key that works on the ignition, gas cap and helmet lock.

So when I turn it on all the lights work so I know I have power.

However when I hit the start button nothing happens.

Also, the battery fuse gets pretty hot with in a minute or so of turning power on.

Finally, there is a loose wire that goes nowhere dangling from the reg/rec.

I compared the actual wiring of the reg/rec and the igniter with the local Suzuki service center's OEM GS300LD Wiring Diagram and they don't match. See pics. As you can see only a couple from each part seems to match up with the wiring diagram.

I also traced some of the wires from the reg/rec and they "looked like" they go where the wiring diagram says they should go.

Does anyone out there have a 300 that matches either my reg/rec or the wiring diagram? I need to know what to do next and where the loose wire on the reg/rec goes.

I appreciate any help on this. Since I live in interior Alaska I only have a couple of months left to get it going and do some riding.

You can see the actual reg/rec and igniter pic Here and the wiring diagram Here

Thanks,
Bob

 

[posplayr]

Hi Guys,

Got lucky and bought an 83 GS300LD with only 3,700 miles on it that had been garaged for forever for only $100. Looks like someone tried to jimmy the ignition at one time because when I removed the ignition to get a new key the local locksmith told me it looked like someone had used a screwdriver to try and start it once. The locksmith sold me a blank that turns the ignition on and off. I then went to ebay and got a pre-cut key that works on the ignition, gas cap and helmet lock.

So when I turn it on all the lights work so I know I have power.

However when I hit the start button nothing happens.

Also, the battery fuse gets pretty hot with in a minute or so of turning power on.

Finally, there is a loose wire that goes nowhere dangling from the reg/rec.

I compared the actual wiring of the reg/rec and the igniter with the local Suzuki service center's OEM GS300LD Wiring Diagram and they don't match. See pics. As you can see only a couple from each part seems to match up with the wiring diagram.

I also traced some of the wires from the reg/rec and they "looked like" they go where the wiring diagram says they should go.

Does anyone out there have a 300 that matches either my reg/rec or the wiring diagram? I need to know what to do next and where the loose wire on the reg/rec goes.

I appreciate any help on this. Since I live in interior Alaska I only have a couple of months left to get it going and do some riding.

You can see the actual reg/rec and igniter pic Here and the wiring diagram Here

Thanks,
Bob

Bob,
First Off welcome aoard, Cliff should be along directly to welcome you.

Looks like you are pretty handy at computers so thanks for posting the pics and schematic. It looks like that R/R got hot as the wires leading to it have melted insulation. I would start by reading this thread.

First, the 5 R/R stator connections and wire coding is standard and the wire codes you indicated are standard so you need to make some modification for changing system health and then more from there.

see GS CHARGING_SYSTEM_HEALTH it tells your wht to watch out for to give you the best chances of having healthy charging.

I woudl say to get a new R/R but there is a pretrty good chance none of the parts are bad just the wires/connections are crap. Especially the crimps get corroded.

As for the bike not cranking that has nothing to do with the charging system. You need to test the solenoid
a.) see if the stater works ; you can short across solenoid with a screw drive to just bump it.

b.) use a volt meter to see if teh green/yellow wire is getting power at the solenoid (if not go up to your switch)

c.) If that is OK make sure there is a ground to teh solenoid but if you did teh charging system health that woudl have been fixed.


You need a good battery to check charging then do the quick test to see where you are before starting the stator tests.

Want to just get a feel for how the charging is working? Do a Quick_Test

report back on your Quick test results and we will help diagnose where you shoudl start

 

[snowman51]

Thanks for the reply posplayr. I just bought the battery from the local Suzuki dealer so it should be good. I was reading the threads on "short solenoid" and came across a thread where Flaming Chainsaws asked CDC if, among other things, he had "pulled the clutch in "?

Duh, didn't know you had to do that. So I ran out to the garage, turned the key on, pulled the clutch in and whammo, it turned over. So I at least know it's not frozen.

So, on to the "GS CHARGING_SYSTEM_HEALTH" pages and figuring out where that wire goes.

 

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. snowman51,

There's an '82 GS250-GS300 service manual on my website that should be close enough for most purposes. You are welcome to grab a copy.

That "unknown" wire, I suspect, is the original white/green wire. It connects to the stator along with the yellow and white/red wires in the original configuration. Well, no, actually, the original configuration may have included a loop of wire that goes to a (possibly non-existent) headlight switch (using a green/white wire?). That switch would disable one leg of the stator if you turned of the headlight so as to not over-charge the battery. These days we bypass that loop of wire and connect the stator outputs directly to the r/r inputs thusly:

The above is actually a diagram for an r/r upgrade using a Honda regulator (a Shindengen FH-012 or similar). That's why you see a 6th wire, or "sense" wire used to help keep the regulator output constant.

Anyway, if you're not thoroughly confused, you will be as soon as I dump a TON if information on you and share some GS lovin'.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[snowman51]

Thanks for the welcome BassCliff,

I have a couple of ?'s that may you, Posplayr or someone else could answer.

The schematic doesn;t show the wires being in the same position on the r./r as they actually are on the r/r. For example the Red + line is in the second from left position in the schematic.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64551288@N08/5870021120/in/photostream

Yet, it's in the last position on the right in the actual wiring of the r/r.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64551288@N08/5869463693/in/photostream

Does these changes in positions really matter because right now i do have lights, neutral light, shift position and the starter works?

Also, I think i have figured out that the loose bare wire is the W/Bl wire that connects to the stator's W/Bl wire. However, the stators W/Bl wire is pigtailed into the stator's own Yellow wire with a bullet connector.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64551288@N08/5877804660/in/photostream

I still don't see where the r/r's W/Bl was connected to. Which brings me to my last ?.

In your GS Charging Health pages BassCliff you show all the stator wires bypassing the wiring harness and fuse box(which my GS300 doesn't have-just one fuse on the battery + line) and connecting directly to the r/r's wires.

I just want to verify that that was what you intended, to bypass the wiring harness?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Read The Stator Papers (link in your "mega-welcome"). You'll understand a lot more of why we do the following.

Does these changes in positions really matter because right now i do have lights, neutral light, shift position and the starter works?

No, the positions do not matter. The actual position of the wire on the r/r will vary. You want to go by the color of the wire.

I just want to verify that that was what you intended, to bypass the wiring harness?

Yes, connect the three outputs of the stator directly to the three r/r inputs.

On the diagram, if you trace that middle wire coming out of the stator, you will see that all it does is make a loop at the right handlebar switch and comes back to the r/r unit. Just eliminate that useless loop of wire.

Then connect the ground wire of the r/r directly to the negative terminal of the battery.

Lastly, connect the red output wire of the r/r into it's regular harness connection. I think that's the one that goes through the fuse on its way to the battery/solenoid.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[snowman51]

IT'S ALIVE!!! Well sorta.

Posplayr and Basscliff as you guys recommended I switched all the wiring over to a single ground system. Had a little problem with the solenoid wire. It turned out to be a switched wire so I had to put it back on the solenoid where it was evidently very happy. Went through the GS Charging System Health tests and was then at the point of trying to start it for the Stator Pages tests.

That's when I ran into a couple of problems. It would turn over and fire but not run. I could shoot carb and choke cleaner into the air manifold and it would fire for a second so I knew it wanted to run.

Back to the GSResources website for more research. Found out that what I thought was the fuel line was actually the vacuum line and the "duh" fuel line wasn't connected. Had to get an inline coupler and extend the length of the fuel line because it was too short. Try and find parts for that on the Sunday before 4th of July in a town of 2,500 people.

But I did manage to get the parts and hooked the fuel line up. I had removed the battery to charge it overnight since I had run it down the day before trying to start it. I put the battery in and that's when I learned -never hook the negative up before the positive. When I slid the battery in I hooked the negative up and as I was reaching for the positive line from the battery - you guessed it I touched the frame with it. Luckily I only blew the fuse.

So I got the battery hooked up, turned the petcock to PRI just to make sure I was getting fuel, turned the key on, pulled the choke in, pulled the clutch in, hit the start button and ..... it started and ran. Yeaaaaa!

Sadly it sounded like a loud sewing machine. Somethings not right in the engine - valves, bearings, something. And it doesn't want to stay running at idle either. But she'll start every time now.

Unfortunately, I still have an electrical problem also. When I revved it up I blew the fuse again. If it were just the electrical problem I would keep working on it because summer is so short up here and I know it runs now. But the internal issues with the engine means it's not rideable right now. So, it's now become a winter project when I'll have time to tear the engine down and find out what the problems are.

But I wanted to report back my progress and thank you guys for helping me get this far with it. We know it runs now and should run really well after I find out whats making it sound like a locomotive going over railroad tracks. I 'll see you guys this fall/winter.

Thanks again, Bob