650E ignition

[Guest]

I have a 82 GS650E that I have had for a trouble free 3k miles, but........ now when the bike heats up, about 15 min, it stalls and I have no spark on all 4 cylinders. The spark plug caps are new. The coils are in spec with 4 ohm primary and 28 secondary, hot or cold. I checked the IC Igniter as it says in the manual, to use an ohm meter to fire the Igniter and this works cold or hot after I lose spark. I checked the signal generator, the manual says I should have 60-80 ohms between the ground and each power wire. I get 73-77 cold and 83-85 hot, not much out of spec, but since it is out and I cant find any thing else I bought a new one and installed it. The bike is the same. I am at a loss as what to do next.

[koolaid_kid]

Have you checked the voltage to the coils (O/W) after it loses spark?
There are only a few pieces in the equation:
The signal generator (which is new)
The igniter
The coils
12V to the coils
I would discount the coils, since they rarely go out at the same time
That leaves the igniter
If you can fit a Dyna S on your bike, I would do that and be done with it.

[Nessism]

Must be the ignitor, or some wiring problem. Many of the GS bikes shared ignitors so you may want to research part number cross reference and post an ad in the Parts Wanted forum.

[mike_of_bbg]

That definitely sounds like classic ignitor overheating. I know your ignitor passed the volt meter probe test - but I believe the tickle from the DMM will be much greater than the impulse it gets from the hall effect signal generator.

Does your bike have a mechanical advance system? The ohm range you spec'd for the sig gen matches the mechanical advance GS550s. You'll probably want to search the forums for info about the GS650 and Dyna S. IIRC (and that's a big IF), the 650 is not officially "supported" for use with the Dyna S. However, some models (think the chain-drive E models) it works just fine out of the box, but on others the backing plate or mounting needs to be modified because the oil pressure sender blocks the plate installation. Don't take my word for it please search and see - it's been done though.

[Suzuki_Don]

You'll probably want to search the forums for info about the GS650 and Dyna S. IIRC (and that's a big IF), the 650 is not officially "supported" for use with the Dyna S. However, some models (think the chain-drive E models) it works just fine out of the box, but on others the backing plate or mounting needs to be modified because the oil pressure sender blocks the plate installation. Don't take my word for it please search and see - it's been done though.

I currently have a query in with Dynatek asking them which is the preferred Dyna S kit to be used for the GS650. There are two kits available -- one each for the Kokusan and Nippon. The DS3-1 for the Kokusan and the DS3-2 for the Nippon. I don't know what the differences are. The kokusan was used for the first couple of years of production, '77-78. and the nippon was used after that I believe. I don't know if there is a difference in the length of the magnetic rotor on the Dyna S for each of the kits. But hopefully Dynatek can give me the information I need.

BTW I did notice when I fitted the GS650G advance/retard unit to my crank end that it then fouled the contact breaker cover, so the 650 unit is definitely longer than the Kokusan 550 unit in standard form, don't know about the Nippon unit though as I don't have one to test.

[Nessism]

The 650G has the oil pressure switch inside the signal generator cavity which fouls the Dyna S baseplate so they don't sell one for that model. I've read here about people cutting a hole in the Dyna S baseplate for the sensor so it will fit though. Guess what I'm driving at is I doubt they will be much help with info about the G but maybe they have a kit for the 650E.

As far as the Dyna S hitting the ignition cover, my old '79 550E had that problem. My bike had the Kokusan advancer and I purchased the appropriate Dyna S kit. Not sure what this has to do with anything but just thought like sharing.

[Suzuki_Don]

Thanks Ed that's OK.

[BassCliff]

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[Pureformance]

I'm in the process of putting a dyna ds3-2 on my gs650g as we speak. I did have to cut a small half moon out of the new plate to get it to fit.

[nahoo7]

On my 81 650e it would run anywhere from 2 mins to 15 mins then die and no spark leave it for 2 hours it would start then stop again fitted a ds3-2 and no problems so far it came with a washer to fit over the rotor which I had to sand down to allow the advance to turn after tightening up the bolt to the crank cheers.
Ithink the nippon denso and kokusan relates to the points used as the later bikes such as mine dont have points the ds3-2 has the washer to make it work and Ithink the ds3-1 doesnt have the washer included.

[Suzuki_Don]

I think the nippon denso and kokusan relates to the points used as the later bikes such as mine don't have points the ds3-2 has the washer to make it work and I think the ds3-1 doesn't have the washer included.

OK thanks Nahoo. I guess that is the reply I will probably get from Dynatek tomorrow.

Thanks for the information.

[nahoo7]

gday suzuki don probably not I asked them the same thing when I was ordering mine and I got an email with links to both ds3-1 & ds3-2. I just took a punt and ordered the ds3-2 luckily it was the right one cheers.

[koolaid_kid]

I suspect Dynatek will be as useful in person as their web site is; Not At All. One of the most useless sites I have had the displeasure of attempting to navigate these days. And I suspect we (GS owners) are thought of there just as we are in some other locations: a fringe group not worth the hassle of actually trying to find correct answers for.
I tried and tried to figure out whether their kit would fit my GS; I finally gave up and asked a GS person. And it works just dandy, BTW.
If you really want an answer I would suggest calling Z1 Enterprises, they are sympathetic to our cause.

[nahoo7]

true enough I actually ordered mine from z1 as I couldnt make heads or tails of their website.

[mike_of_bbg]

There are two kits available -- one each for the Kokusan and Nippon. The DS3-1 for the Kokusan and the DS3-2 for the Nippon. I don't know what the differences are. The kokusan was used for the first couple of years of production, '77-78. and the nippon was used after that I believe. I don't know if there is a difference in the length of the magnetic rotor on the Dyna S for each of the kits. But hopefully Dynatek can give me the information I need.

I think the DS3-1 is only applicable to 550s and 750s with Kokusan points installed (some of them had Nippon Denso points). Everything else uses the DS3-2. Mine was unreadable but apparently some of the ignitors say Kokusan on them but it doesn't matter - use the DS3-2. From another thread I got the impression that the orientation of the magnet is different on the rotors.

It's almost ubiquitous in my own experience and helping some others that the rotor or spacer needs to be sanded down, or the spacer replaced with a thinner washer, when installing the DS3-2 on factory EI systems. When bolted the rotor cannot advance with the included spacer. And it's about 0.8mm too thick. That could contribute to clearance issues under the points cover.