83 gs550esd died while riding help..

[David_510]

Sigh, i just got done typing EVERYTHING that happen and hit alt f4 on my gfs small ass laptop and lost it all.. So no story... But here is the problem

Just got bike registered first time in 10 years, before this it sat for 10 years didn't run. I got it running great cleaned the carbs etc... Now... been riding it 1-2 weeks daily to work and back (140 miles roundtrip).

3 days ago on the way home, bike goes from 6500 rpms down to 0, im like wtf, Than before i can react i hear this loud screech and bam it starts back up. im thinking ok what the hell was that, but while i was thinking what it could be bam does it again, this time im thinking fuel (although i just filled it up about 20 miles ago) im thinking maybe petcock, so i hit reserve let the clutch out won't fire.. well ****.. So i push it off the bridge (karkinas bridge in california) and hit prime let it sit for 20 seconds and it fires up. Cool off i go.

With the thought it was the petcock, next day goes fine.. Now here comes the problems.. Yesterday on the way home about 20 miles further up the road where it did this the other day it does it again... So im like wtf, im on prime fuel is flowing not the petcock.. Come to a stop on the side of the freeway try to restart it.. Battery is dead... OK now im thinkg gosh battery must be garbage or something, because when i left work that day i had to get a jump, but i had stopped and it started just fine after the jump so apparently it was charging...

So i get off the freeway to sonics get jumpers and try to jump it.. but it won't crank over fast enough to start it, it acts like the battery is too dead even wiht jumpers. So i let it sit try again. No avail... But while im holding down the starter button i notice the starter solenoid is smoking im like **** wtf.. rip the jumper cables off, which were extremely hot and let it sit.. Now im like ok must be grounding out, check the bike over while im sitting in sonics and find one possible thing, underneath the gas tank... when ilifted the gas tank i tried to crank it and it cranked fairly quick than slowed down like the batt was dead again and if i held the button the wire leading from the battery to the solenoid started smoking ( a rather think gauge wire)... So i pull the tank off and i see three yellow wires after a bit of looking which i think are the problem because it appears they aren't fully connected in their sheaths... So i push them back in, thinking this would solve the problem. It doesnt. So i call my uncle for a tow, and while waiting im tracing the yellow wires out and come up on where they lead to. They led to this black rectangular thing with fins on it that sits on the left side of the bike near the ignitor. So there is a little plastic connection point with 4 wires, those 3 yellow ones and one red (im not sure what this is still) so i unlug it plug it back it, than about 2 minutes later on one last hope i hit the starter button she cranks over beautifully and fires...

So i ride over to my gfs dads friends house to have a beer and it dies while idling, So i start it back up, it starts fine, idles for about a minute than dies... im thinking on wth.. So i look under the tank and see my gas line could be pinched, So i take the tank off move the filter and the line and start it up it idles for about 5 minutes than dies again, This time it won't crank over fast does this SLOW crank and acts like the battery is dead.. I go down the strret and grab a batt charger.. throw it on there thinking this will work... Nope does the same **** it did earlier, If i crank the bike and hold the starter the solenoid starts smoking... So i try jumpingthe solenoid, no difference, just a burned finger. So after 2-3 hours of messing with it it fires up.. Sweet (i think) and take off heading home.. get 3-4 miles down the freeway SAME **** HAPPENS. It dies on me and i try to crank it.. it cranks maybe 10 times than does this slow cranking like barely cranking over.. so i have gf bring cables try to jump it but now it won;t fire. It cranked over pretty fast but not firing... than it stops cranking over fast and does the same **** it ws doing earlier... So i said **** it called AAA and towed it home


Now i need some help... What do you guys think this is from? Below is a list of events

1st time it fired back up while moving compression restarted
2nd time died completely had to hit prime once it stopped for 20 seconds and it fired
3rd time batt acted like dead so got cables, no affect, noticed solenoid smoking, fixed what i thought was grounding out, sat for 2 hours and finally out of randomness starts, head to friends house about 2 mins away
4th time, dies while idling, dies while idling again, think it's gas fix the gas line idles for 5 mins than dies, won't start batt acts like dead get charger, solenoid smokes when holding start button same **** as before, than randomly after about 3 hours fires.. head home
5th time get 3-4 miles down after it started and it does the same thing, cranks lil fast than batt acts dead. get cables now affect.. However every now and than it could crank fast 2-3 times than go really slow... finally towed it home

Any question please ask i really need help getting this going again

[Redman]

Dave510,

The 3 yellow wires will be from the stator (generator inside left engine case). And since they are yellow we know it is a replacement stator, not original stock (no suprize there).
THose stator wires will be connected to the Regulator/Rectifyer (the silver finned thing, some are black, some are dark oily).
THe red wire will be the output from the R/R to charge the battery.
Also look for the black wire from the R/R.
Good that you have found these.

The story of when and where it died, and when it cranked and when it didnt doesnt really help too much, other than, yah, your battery is not doing what it should.
Question is if the battery has failed or of the charging system has not been charging the battery.

If bike was parked for 10 years I would quess you have a new battery in it now. Have you checked the fluid level (or maybe it is a sealed unit)

TO troubleshoot the charging system you will need a volt meter (multimeter). And need to find the wires you have described.

Do You have a volt meter? (I suspect not since have not mentioned any voltage readings).

Do You have a battery charger (1 amp, not 4 or 6 or 10), so can charge battery to get it started again?
(I suspect not, since you didnt say anything about putting it on a charger.)

You will need:
. voltmeter (multimeter)
. Battery charger
. Stator Papers (can be found on BassCliff site, or on GSR homepage Garage section). Describes in detail how to check many things on charging system.
. Understanding of what is stator, what is R/R and were to find them and thier connections.

Maybe add your location to your user profile (UserCP).

Dave Redman

PS: Idle for 5 minutes.. not good idea for aircooled bike, and is not charging battery much at all (even at best) at idle.

PS: DOnt leave petcock in PRIme position when bike parked.

.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

It seems you are having charging issues. Check and clean EVERY electrical connection on the entire bike. Read The Stator Papers. Read the electrical section of my website for even more troubleshooting. On my website, see the articles about stator testing and replacement, regulator/rectifier replacement, fusebox cleanup, etc.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[David_510]

Ok, so let's see Here. I do have a 2amp 12 volt charger which I charge the battery with. The battery is brand new from about 6-8 months. I mean the part of it being a problem with the charging system is understandable but if it was the charging system why when it died the first time was I able to get it to restart without a battery.

The first time I typed my story I was way more thorough with details. But what I'm still puzzled by is why sometimes it if I keep the starter button held down while on the jumper cables it cranks really slow but every so often it cranks really fast. And why is the starter solenoid getting so hot it smokes. And when it starts smoking the starter isn't turning at all it just makes no noise and starts smoking.

[tom203]

The starter solenoid isn't designed to run that long- it's passing maybe 80 amps to the starter motor (hopefully), so it's bound to get hot and then smoke. If you're using jumper cables, make sure the jumper car ISN'T running, or you might fry some expensive electrical components on your bike needlessly. Follow the link to Basscliff's site,do a little reading, and then some testing. Charging problems are very common- scan thru some other posts- and need to be checked in a systemic way.

[mike_of_bbg]

The solenoid is smoking because it's heating up (duh). This is happening because it's trying to pass more current than it can handle. Some reasons this can happen:

1. Internal damage or corrosion in the solenoid, reducing its capacity. I'm somewhat skeptical about that in your case since the cable to the starter was also heating up, but tractor solenoids from Lowe's/Home Depot/TSC are reported to work fine and are cheap.
2. A short of the cable going to your starter. Inspect it for any chafing. Make sure it's tight on the starter motor side.
3. Internal problems with the starter motor.
4. Loose connection on the solenoid (in from battery side, particularly)

None of those, though (except #4), would normally explain why the bike is cutting out when running. That seems like a short of some sort, or a broken connection. You're not blowing any fuses? Hot jumper cables say short. The starting circuit has no over-current protection other than burning wires. Maybe the solenoid is shorting out internally?

As stated, you should go through the whole bike and clean and check all connections and check your wiring for any chafing or cuts.

Once you get it running again you need to check the charging system thoroughly. Some of the stator and r/r tests can be done without a running bike.

[David_510]

Alright so after doing some little voltage tests here is what i came up with,

The battery voltage was 10.9, so i threw it on the charger and it charged up to 12.0

Tried to start it with the battery charger on and it did the same thing it did before, barely cranked over, than stopped and the wire leading to the starter solenoid (the thick gauge one) started smoking.

So im like wtf, take the charger cable off and check the power of the battery with the voltage meter, and it shows 11.7. So im like ok lets try it again. Hit the starter button and vroom it cranks over with plenty charge and starts on the first try... Alright so this is wierd...

So i checked the charge, im getting 11.4 to the battery and while it was idling it was slowly raising it raised to 11.8 after about 30 seconds... I hit the throttle to 4000 rpms and it showed 12.8. Didn't go higher than that..

The three yellow wires were showing 6 volts each and the red wire was showing 12...

So now what do you guys think about this?

Could this be a coil overheating and shutting the bike down? Or are we thinking a wire grounding out?

[mike_of_bbg]

Your battery is toast. It should charge up to 12.7 or higher. Replace it.

[mike_of_bbg]

BTW, I'm talking about ON the charger it should charge up to 12.7 or higher. If you could only get it to 12.0 (and didn't remove it early out of impatience) then the battery is toast. Now, there may also have been an issue which killed your battery...

[David_510]

Yea i took it off after about... 30 minutes of charging..

But i just did some rectifier tests, when i first started it up and revved to 2500 it showed 13.9, than went to 5000 and it showed 14.3-14.4 all good, right.. so i tested again after about 20 seconds and this time the battery showed 11.9 and when revved to 2500 made no difference, and when at 5000 made no difference, so i tested the rectifier cables, the red and the black with the neg of the volt meter on the pos of batt and the red on the red coming off the rectifier, it read .3 the first time.. so i did the other test where you do black on neg from regulator and red on neg from battery and it showed .3, so i retested the red on red and this time showed 0....

Sigh...

One more thing to add... those three yellow wiresd have connections underneath the gas tank, the other day when i noticed one was loose all three fell out, i wasn;t sure which went where but i thought i had it right, does it matter which one plugs where? also when i tested those wires while the bike was running, one was at 6.9 one was at 11.9 (the same as the red one) and one was at like 7.3... they were all rather hot aswell and my rectifier is rather hot too.

[chef1366]

Did you jump the bike with a running car?

[Redman]

...
...
...So i checked the charge, im getting 11.4 to the battery and while it was idling it was slowly raising it raised to 11.8 after about 30 seconds... I hit the throttle to 4000 rpms and it showed 12.8. Didn't go higher than that..

The three yellow wires were showing 6 volts each and the red wire was showing 12...
...
...
?

The above shows NO CHARGING.
Charging system is not charging.
But then later (an other posting) you check again and it is charging.
Ah, an intermittent problem. SOmetimes is OKAY, other times it is not.
WHen trouble shooting you will have to keep checking to see if it is working or not at that time.

THe test were you measure the voltage at the 3 yellow wires (actaully between any two yellow wires) is to be done with the yellow wires disconnected and should be over 60 volts, close to 70. WHen conencted to the R/R is not a good test of R/R because the R/R could be bad and even if its good the voltage there will be changeing.

You can use a 2 amp charger, just dont leave it on for days, But will need to leave it on for several hours (not just a couple) to get good charge. A 1 amp or 3/4amp charger is better.

THe other volt checks from the R/R+ to battery+ (and from R/R- to battery-) show that is good connections from R/R to battery , so that is good.
A low voltage like 0.2 or 0.3 is good, 0.1 is better. That shows that the current going through all those conenctions is not meeting much resistance. If it was a bad connection you would see 1 or 2 or 3 volts (and batteryh voltage be 1 or 2 or 3 volts lower than the R/R volts). If was a real bad conenction like completley disconnected would see voltage of 12 or 13 or 14 and no charging at the battery.
Maybe when you got reading of 0.0 was when the charging was not working, so no current flowing through the connections.

Good that you have the Stator Papers, and that you have a volt meter and know how to use it.
Try the voltage test with the stator leads (yellow wires) disconnected.
Also do the stator lead ohm check.


Tell us more what you find.

Dave

.

[David_510]

ohms are all 1.1 - 1.3 i tested it 9 times the most possible lol, made sure i tested each one with neg and positive all came out the same,

Now, i do have one wire, it is a black and white that i have no CLUE where it goes and it has always been disconnected. It has a connector at the end (one of the slide on types a female end) and it comes from the smaller gauge ground wire coming off the neg terminal on the battery. that smaller gauge wire comes down and has a splice where 2 other b/w wires join it, one of which is disconnected the other runs into my ignitor... any idea where this goes? I can not find a home for it.


@chef Yes, i have jumped it with a running car before. Did not know this would hurt it. What could it have done?

[David_510]

ok so after my last post ilet the bike sit and cool off a bit.. started it up and tested for charging... this time, batt said 11.9 and when i gave it gas it raised to 12.3 for about 30 seconds then cut off back to 11.9

also i tested the 3 yellow wires and the one red (right after the connector coming from the r/r) and one read 6.4 and raised to 7.2 when i gave it throttle other went from 7.2-7.9 and the last one went from 11.2-11.8. The red wire read 11.5 continually.

[chef1366]

Did you test the stator wires with the AC setting?