Charging Voltage now low...

[mothra]

Hi guys...

More questions

When I got this bike, first thing I worked on was the electrical.
-Added rear signals and replaced the front right signal with aftermarket signals, similar to original signals.
-Used some contact cleaner on all of the bullet plugs to clean them up.
-I also fabricated some new ground points,
-one from the battery to the engine and
-a few more for the lights, signal relay, and some other stuff to even out the frame ground on the system a bit more.
This fixed the turn signal issues I had with them not flashing and cleared up some weird resistance readings on most electrical components.
-Next I went though and replaced some worn connectors. I replaced a few bullet connectors with blade connectors that were utterly worn, and
-I also did the headlamp connector, and a few other rotted connectors.
-I also checked for shorts and generally cleaned up the electrical system. Nothing too major.

So I ended up cooking a battery... and ended up replacing the Regulator/Rectifier with a new one as the old one was over charging the battery at 19V. (Didn't initially test the R/R or Stator since they had worked OK for two weeks) Way to high for a battery. So I had a shop put a new regulator in, they were doing tires, sprockets and chains. Yea I don't have the tools to deal with the chain or mounting tires, so went ahead and had them put that in with that job. It looks like Ricks Motorsport Electric one, black, longer with larger fins similar wiring setup, and it was about $100. Said it was a good one and that he used them before no prob. The did a nice job, had shrink wrapping on the wires, there were no loose connections, and they checked the electrical over again and replaced some more connectors and so they did go through the electrical and it was working great (independent verification, and had some comments about these bikes and their charging system) Also mentioned that I may need a new stator soon. So I suspect that they found something suspicious about it and warned me about its death state. Said I did well wiring everything back up and let me verify that the battery was in fact now completely charging at 14V under hither revs, and that it was working correctly. Off I went, pleased.

So that lasted about a day, and the stator blew. I discovered my stator blew while riding, the battery was draining during a ride, felt the regulator and it was a cold dead fish, didn't even have to check the stator, I knew it went. I went to RMStator and picked one up there for about $100. Another Ricks I think since the name stuck. Ordered the gasket and some thread lock and installed that last weekend. Whoot, actually it was pretty easy and I had all of the gaskets I needed thanks to someone tutorial here... (ah hem, thanks) Taking out the old one, it was the original Suzuki stator (how old now?) with a blown coil (Connecting to the yellow wire on the bike). So I checked all the wiring again and found no problems.

Installed the stator and tested with the bike running and it was outputting about 19-21AC on all coil output lines... on the high end, going into the R/R. The R/R was also getting warm (whoot getting current), however when checking battery voltage.... I was getting about .5V DC to the battery difference while revving. The battery was fully charged, and used briefly to start the bike, but it did't seam to be charging. I though great, and decided to try to test ride it around for about an hour and a half, to see if the battery would discharge. It didn't, and I ran the bike for a good while with no indication of a problem, however when I got home, and tested the battery, it was not loosing a ton of current, but it wasn't charged up you know what I mean? Like the bike wasn't continually draining the battery, but again only about .5V DC difference (yes 1/2 volt) from idle to high rev RPM's... Ride was about 1.5 hours long, varying, no stopping in one big loop.

Also have lost 2 rear tail lights on the bike, but found no evidence of a short, I have wiggled jiggled and bent wires around looking for one while it was running. Since i put in the new stator I have not lost any more bulbs, but now I don't seem to be charging the battery...

What do you make of this?

Did I blow out the R/R when the stator blew?

There is no noticeable voltage drop on the battery, and I can remove the battery from the circuit and the bike will continue to run. However, the battery will never really get more than about 1/2 volt to charge it back up.

We went from cooking to working, to discharging, to not charging, but not totally draining. LOL

[keman]

I see that you have done 90% by checking and or changing bad connectors, adding new grounds etc...

I'd test the R/R, sometimes when a Stator goes it doesn't like to be alone, so it takes the R/R with it. If you have to change the R/R again. take it out with the battery tray. (great chance to clean and repaint the tray) Also on the new R/R, make sure the ground goes to the Neg battery, not just grounded to the battery tray. Battery trays are Not a solid ground unless you make a seperate ground for it.

Next, look at the red wire... end to end. Double check the connectors and feel the wire for hard spots or cracks in the insulation. Sometimes a charging problem can orccur between the battery and the fuse box. disconect the battery, and do a continuity test between the battery and the main fuse.

Next, pull your fuse box and check the back, clean the fuse holders, clean the contacts on the back...

My battery tray has a copper ground strap that runs under the components mounted to it out to two points on the frame.

The ground plane (frame) on these bikes is not very big. so good CLEAN ground points are paramount to function.

[tom203]

"There is no noticeable voltage drop on the battery, and I can remove the battery from the circuit and the bike will continue to run. However, the battery will never really get more than about 1/2 volt to charge it back up."


Don't disconnect battery while running- the R/R needs a reference source to decide what to do. Without battery, charging system voltage could climb way too high damaging lots of stuff. You need to review the charging system tests and do them step by step to pinpoint the problem. The tests are designed a certain way for a reason. Just replacing stuff is silly and, as you found out, expensive.

[jbs80106]

Sounds like you're making progress.

That new Reg you had put on should be replaceable under warranty, usually warranteed for a year. I'd not say anything about ur stator.

Years ago I had a non-working charging system. Ran stator papers, and wound up replacing both stator and reg/rect. Both replaced with new. Less than a year went by and the stator failed again. I replaced it with an original item I found on Ebay and have had no problems. Killed the reg/rect too, but they replaced that one under warranty even though it was like 13 months old.

Check that the regulator is connected to the battery. I forget which terminal, but I think it's the negative terminal.

As you should be within warranty period I'd replace both back to known good state, then retest before you leave your garage so you don't get stranded.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

See "The Stator Papers" and the supplementary documentation I've collected in the electrical section of my website. Do all of the proper testing. When testing the AC from the stator you should see 60v-80v AC from each leg. All three outputs should be equal. Be sure to clean the fuse box connections (front and back), then test the voltage loss between the r/r output and the positive battery terminal. The lower the voltage, the better. Keep us informed.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[SqDancerLynn1]

If the stator is disconnected it should put out 60-70 VAC Cliff has a pictorial on his web site for charging circuit

[mothra]

60-80V (out of circut) per leg on the stator?
I tested it in circuit, just to see if I had some output voltage, but that does bring into question my grounds again since the output was so low however consistent...(Time to go through the stator papers again in order and re-test everything). I suspect that I have a few remaining grounding issues, and some faulty battery leads. (I was wondering why anyone would run a ground to the battery tray... LOL Least I am not alone...) Maybe I have a bad multi meter... Its an oldie and it was cheep... I was getting fairly consistent but incorrect reading everywhere. Wouldn't that be funny. That's a first for me. I will go though your electrical papers again BassCliff (From the beginning... I promise) I have gone through the stator papers a few times correcting things. I had it working for a good solid 4 hours! LOL

Cool, now I have a few more places to check and verify. Hopefully something simple.

And I promise I won't remove the battery from the circuit anymore while running.... I was pretty quick about it.. I promise! LOL (Ok so yea I knew that would be a dumb idea at the time I did it but I had to know, and yes there are better ways to know...)

Ok so I will check out the fuse holders, the wring to the battery and how the R/R is grounded and re-test the stator and reg/rec using the stator papers again and report back. Testing directly after the R/R is also another good idea since I am going to have to replace the batteries positive connector wire.

Thanks again everyone :-P Yea I would have stayed close to home but I was looking into a few other things I had worked on that needed some testing time, Everything but the electrical seemed to be going well.

[IanDMacDonald]

Mothra-

I am wondering if you are testing the stator legs (A-B, A-C, C-B) in DC voltage, instead of AC? What kind of meter are you using? I am an electrical student, and used a newer Fluke VOM that did not detect the Stator output voltage in AC, and registered it in DC instead. I had to dig out one of my Craftsman VOM's that allowed me to manually switch to AC voltage reading.

[mothra]

Yep I have done that... Lol but no the dmm died. It did cost me mot of my time today figuring out what I did wrong at work. What this can't be, check again...hua... That should be impossible....chek again.... No way....
So maybe.... I just have a problem with the meter. Dang it was pretty handy size wise, but I think I will stick to my Extech. Realizing your tool is borked is the first step to realizing you have a new problem.

So whoot I guess we recheck it all with another one.

Yea:
I was studying comp e for a bit, but I had to move back to Denver when I lost a job and lost housing and lost all my money on gas commuting to colorado springs one semester. Loved all of the micros and circuts, hated Java physics and calculus. Diffeqs was alright though. Took a year to get a job, straightened out, and back into school, decided on CIS after I realized I had fulfilled the generals, electives and some business courses I took while getting myself together again. Ironically I am employed as a programmer

[mothra]

Ok so using a new Multi Meter, I checked out the new stator.

On AC the stator had about 48VAC on all three windings with the stator disconnected, bike running at 4500RPM's . It appears to be working.

The Regulator Rectifier was warm after a few minutes of operation, however the output voltage from the Reg/Rec directly was 12.45V Idle and 12.93V at 4500RPM's.

There was some voltage drop from regulator directly to battery (about .03 Volts) but nothing major.

So it looks like the stator may have taken some hostages. I routed the Reg/Rec directly to the battery ground, and connected a few Chassis grounds directly to the negative battery terminal. Also will be replacing the Positive battery plug. (Before testing). The reg/rec is just not outputting enough current to charge the battery but it seems to be partially working.

Its within the running current, but before the Reg/Rec would output about 14V on high idle with the voltage increase on stator.

[tom203]

Stator phase to phase should be > 60 volts AC disconnected from R/R- yours is 20% too low. The R/R has no way to boost this so you're getting less than 13 volts of DC output- enough to run bike, but you need a minimum of 13.3 volts to charge a typical 12 volt battery. I'd doublecheck those readings but your stator seems tired.

[bccap]

What are the battery readings, off, at idle, and at 5000 revs. If you are getting the correct readings, you may just need a battery.