Installing an Eastern Beaver fuse box.

[Steve]

I was thinking of running the R/R ground through the + side of the board and fusing it that way . Or fusing the relay through the second battery space?

You do NOT want to ground the R/R through the + side of ANYTHING.
The R/R ground wire should go rather directly to the battery - terminal or to a very good frame ground, which then goes straight to the battery terminal.


If I am understanding what you are trying to do, you will be running a wire straight to the fusebox, then out of one of the two unswitched terminals, you will feed the relay that will then feed the rest of the terminals? Too much wiring, to complicated.

You really only need a large fuse between the R/R and the battery, if your R/R is wired directly to the battery. If that is the way you have it wired, you can run a wire straight from the battery to the BAT terminal in the fusebox (unswitched). From one of the two fuses on that unswitched terminal, run the red wire to the ignition switch. Use the orange wire that comes back from the ignition switch to activate the relay. The output of the relay will connect to the PWR terminal on the fusebox to power the other 6 fuses.

Your bike will take 3 of those 6 fuses to run LIGHTS, SIGNALS and IGNITION, as usual, leaving 3 switched, fused terminals for accessories. You also have one unswitched fuse at the top that is perfect for connecting your battery tender.

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[posplayr]

Steve the reason for the main fuse is so that the battery does not see a short. The only reason for having an in line fuse between the r/r and the battery is because if you hooked the r/r directly to the battery you would be in danger of shorting the battery because you have violated the rule to have any connection to the battery (+) be fused.

Bottom line is that it is quite dangerous to have anything connected to the battery that is not fused. That is one of the reasons why the "t" is the preferred "hot point".

[850GT_Rider]

Steve the reason for the main fuse is so that the battery does not see a short. The only reason for having an in line fuse between the r/r and the battery is because if you hooked the r/r directly to the battery you would be in danger of shorting the battery because you have violated the rule to have any connection to the battery (+) be fused.

Bottom line is that it is quite dangerous to have anything connected to the battery that is not fused. That is one of the reasons why the "t" is the preferred "hot point".

But in that configuration, the output of the R/R connects to the "T" point, then all the way up to the ignition switch (red) and back to the fuse block (orange), without fuses. Only the 'branch' circuits are protected after that.

What protects the R/R from a short in the ignition switch wiring?

[posplayr]

But in that configuration, the output of the R/R connects to the "T" point, then all the way up to the ignition switch (red) and back to the fuse block (orange), without fuses. Only the 'branch' circuits are protected after that.

What protects the R/R from a short in the ignition switch wiring?

The stator is only capable of providing 15 amps (through the r/r rectification process) which is only slightly more that what it takes to run the bike. So if you are going to fuse the output of the r/r you need to be able to tell if it is for a normal load 14 amps or a bad short load that is going to exceed the 15 amps that the r/r can source. Not easy to figure out what is a good load and a bad load so there is no fuse protecting the R/r output from shorting. I don't think any is nesessary as there would be no conditions that I could see the fuse blowing with a short where you are not running the risk of blowing the fuse under normal operations and as suffering all the attendant risk of those outcomes.

[posplayr]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1636554&postcount=4

This is a link to how I would recommend using the western beaver with a single main relay. It is shown with the compufire but it would only take a minor adjustment in the cf case ground to be applicable to othe r/r 's.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1637803&postcount=9

[Steve]

Steve the reason for the main fuse is so that the battery does not see a short. The only reason for having an in line fuse between the r/r and the battery is because if you hooked the r/r directly to the battery you would be in danger of shorting the battery because you have violated the rule to have any connection to the battery (+) be fused.

Look back at my posts, I did not say anything contrary to that.

You really only need a large fuse between the R/R and the battery, if your R/R is wired directly to the battery.

The stock MAIN fuse is inbetween the R/R and the battery. My bike has been re-wired to have the R/R go straight to the battery, instead of the "T" connection in the stock harness. There is a fuse in that "direct" line, so I did not feel one was necessary between the battery and the relay.

I think one source of confusion is the suggestion of different-size fuses in the different configurations.
In the stock setup, the R/R powers the bike through the "T" connection, and the battery only gets any leftover 'juice', which has to get there through the MAIN fuse. Before starting the bike, all the current to run the bike goes from the battery, through the MAIN fuse, then the ignition switch, back to the other fuses and on to the bike. All of that totals less than 15 amps, so the stock 15-amp fuse is fine.

However, when you run the R/R straight to the battery (through a fuse, of course), EVERYTHING is going through that fuse, not just the leftover current that is going to charge the battery. In that configuration, the 15 will likely not be enough. You have measured the output of the system, I thought it was a bit over 20 amps. Depending on the reserve you want (and the wire size), you could use a 25 amp fuse.

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[posplayr]

Look back at my posts, I did not say anything contrary to that.




I think one source of confusion is the suggestion of different-size fuses in the different configurations.
In the stock setup, the R/R powers the bike through the "T" connection, and the battery only gets any leftover 'juice', which has to get there through the MAIN fuse. Before starting the bike, all the current to run the bike goes from the battery, through the MAIN fuse, then the ignition switch, back to the other fuses and on to the bike. All of that totals less than 15 amps, so the stock 15-amp fuse is fine.

However, when you run the R/R straight to the battery (through a fuse, of course), EVERYTHING is going through that fuse, not just the leftover current that is going to charge the battery. In that configuration, the 15 will likely not be enough. You have measured the output of the system, I thought it was a bit over 20 amps. Depending on the reserve you want (and the wire size), you could use a 25 amp fuse.

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Steve the last sentence in your second quote is what I was keying off.

so I did not feel one was necessary between the battery and the relay.

It sounds like the are connections to the battery that are not fused. Without a schematic I have to guess a little but now I'm realizing that your relay probably only drives the eastern beaver power input which has fused legs for all outputs. If for some reason the relay shorted that would do no good and you would smoke the wires to the battery or if someone unknowingly started to use the relay output as a switched power source (e.g. R/r sense point) they would be risking further shorts and ad course just having that relay with the + 12v live and switched although insulated, so might use electrical tape that would expose those wires to potentially raking a wrench or screw driver across and getting a short.
Bottom line it is safest to only have one wire coming from the battery (+) and have the other end fused with little possibility of exposed wires before the fuse.

[Hakamisu]

You do NOT want to ground the R/R through the + side of ANYTHING.
The R/R ground wire should go rather directly to the battery - terminal or to a very good frame ground, which then goes straight to the battery terminal.


If I am understanding what you are trying to do, you will be running a wire straight to the fusebox, then out of one of the two unswitched terminals, you will feed the relay that will then feed the rest of the terminals? Too much wiring, to complicated.

You really only need a large fuse between the R/R and the battery, if your R/R is wired directly to the battery. If that is the way you have it wired, you can run a wire straight from the battery to the BAT terminal in the fusebox (unswitched). From one of the two fuses on that unswitched terminal, run the red wire to the ignition switch. Use the orange wire that comes back from the ignition switch to activate the relay. The output of the relay will connect to the PWR terminal on the fusebox to power the other 6 fuses.

Your bike will take 3 of those 6 fuses to run LIGHTS, SIGNALS and IGNITION, as usual, leaving 3 switched, fused terminals for accessories. You also have one unswitched fuse at the top that is perfect for connecting your battery tender.

.

Sorry about that, I definitely did not want to ground through the + terminal. I meant to run the ground through a "-" fuse.

And as far as the "to complicated" is concerned for fusing the relay through the fuse block, It wont be too bad as I am building a whole new harness and redoing everything anyways.

[Steve]

Steve the last sentence in your second quote is what I was keying off.

It sounds like the are connections to the battery that are not fused. Without a schematic I have to guess a little but now I'm realizing that your relay probably only drives the eastern beaver power input which has fused legs for all outputs. If for some reason the relay shorted that would do no good and you would smoke the wires to the battery ...

You are correct, there are unfused connections to the battery, but it is only to the relay that feeds the EB fusebox.
The only possible problem would be having the relay short out, I felt that was a small enough risk to not bother putting a fuse in the feed.

By the way, the wire that feeds it on my bike is a 12 gauge, so it will be a good smoke show.

Might even be a few sparks, if the rest of the bike going up in smoke does not obscure the view.

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[Hakamisu]

Steve, thanks for all the info and work your have put into this. I'm also looking for some info on that, relay. Where did you get it? And what's the part number for it?

[Steve]

We can get them at Auto Zone, you might have to go to Princess Auto, or some other favorite auto parts store.

The relay is commonly used for fog lights or driving lights. Commonly known as a "Bosch-style" relay, it looks like this:


If you have difficulty finding them, you can get them from Parts Express for a couple of bucks each.

They also have a waterproof relay for $4.

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[850GT_Rider]

The stator is only capable of providing 15 amps (through the r/r rectification process) which is only slightly more that what it takes to run the bike. So if you are going to fuse the output of the r/r you need to be able to tell if it is for a normal load 14 amps or a bad short load that is going to exceed the 15 amps that the r/r can source. Not easy to figure out what is a good load and a bad load so there is no fuse protecting the R/r output from shorting. I don't think any is nesessary as there would be no conditions that I could see the fuse blowing with a short where you are not running the risk of blowing the fuse under normal operations and as suffering all the attendant risk of those outcomes.

OK Thanks to you and Steve for all your knowledge (even tho you two don't always agree )

All my questions have resulted from installation of a new stator and an SH-775 R/R a few weeks ago. At first fire-up, it wasn't working. Regulation was all over the map. Appeared to work, then not work, then work again. Unfortunately, I had to leave town on business, and I'm just now getting back into it.

Digging back into it yesterday, I think I've got some of the wiring mis-connected. Will work tonight to get it sorted out.

Your input has been invaluable.. Thanks again

[Hakamisu]

Thanks Steve. I'll go get one tonight.

[Steve]

OK Thanks to you and Steve for all your knowledge (even tho you two don't always agree )

We agree on the important stuff, we just have different ways of getting it done, sometimes.

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