No spark, new ignition

[avbove38]

Hey all

I have a 82 gs850l

previous owner replaced ignition with Dyna S ignition system.

I am not getting any spark when trying to start.

The bike will crank and turn over.

Anyone have experience with these ignition systems and what to do to ensure its working properly.

Im a bit electrically challenged. I understand basics but need to learn what to do in a situation like this where I need to test the part and make sure its working.

thanks

 

[Andersonspartsplus]

I know its a bit late but do you still need help?

 

[mike_of_bbg]

First, make sure you're getting voltage at the orange/white wires going to the coils, and to the red wire leading in to the Dyna. The Dyna S wiring is very simple. The coils (+) leads and the Dyna red lead always (with ignition on of course) get +12V. The Black and White wires from the Dyna lead to the (-) leads on the coils. That's it.

 

[avbove38]

I know its a bit late but do you still need help?

Yes i do. I know I have everything wired correctly. I checked it over and over with the color wiring diagram I have. I have power to the bike. Im thinking either this ignition wasnt set up correctly or the coils are bad. Just something ive never done before.

 

[avbove38]

First, make sure you're getting voltage at the orange/white wires going to the coils, and to the red wire leading in to the Dyna. The Dyna S wiring is very simple. The coils (+) leads and the Dyna red lead always (with ignition on of course) get +12V. The Black and White wires from the Dyna lead to the (-) leads on the coils. That's it.

ill check it i have to get a voltage tester to do it. I only have a power probe right now. will update once i figure it out.

thanks.

 

[Andersonspartsplus]

I know its crazy but double check the kill switch.

I have purchased 2 bikes with Dyna s systems wired incorrectly.

1 was a CB550 Honda and 1 was a 1977 GS750. Neither bike would start so the owners either sold them to someone else or let them set for a long time before I found them.

As the previous poster stated follow the instructions carefully. The orange with white stripe should have 12v with the key on. I have spoken with Dyna tech support in the past and they said you may even see a drop as low as 10v at the coils and thats ok.

The solid black and solid white are what determines firing order. Those will be the trigger wires.

If you have 12v at the orange and white of the coils move on to check the trigger wires. Follow dynas instructions for doing so.

Suzuki as well as other Jap manufacturers used 2 different suppliers for ignition systems. ND or KD. To compensate for the difference Dyna sells 2 different Dyna S systems. The backing plate and modules are the same the difference is in the black rotor that bolts to the timing advance. This would be the worst case for sure. Check the wiring first. It is probably the simplest thing. I sometimes get tunnel vision and over look the obvious. Start fresh and follow the instructions to the letter.

 

[terrylee]

Make sure your plugs are good, recently rebuilt carbs on bike that had been sitting a long while, would crank but not spark, put in new plugs fired right up. terrylee

 

[avbove38]

I know its crazy but double check the kill switch.

kill switch is in the on position. down. the off is marked up ive checked that to make sure, i used to work on 2 stroke scooters and the biggest common issue was people turning the kill switch to the off position end result no spark.

I have purchased 2 bikes with Dyna s systems wired incorrectly.

i checked the wiring to the diagram with the dyna s and the color diagram for the wires from the coil. they match.

1 was a CB550 Honda and 1 was a 1977 GS750. Neither bike would start so the owners either sold them to someone else or let them set for a long time before I found them.

As the previous poster stated follow the instructions carefully. The orange with white stripe should have 12v with the key on. I have spoken with Dyna tech support in the past and they said you may even see a drop as low as 10v at the coils and thats ok.

The solid black and solid white are what determines firing order. Those will be the trigger wires.

If you have 12v at the orange and white of the coils move on to check the trigger wires. Follow dynas instructions for doing so.

Suzuki as well as other Jap manufacturers used 2 different suppliers for ignition systems. ND or KD. To compensate for the difference Dyna sells 2 different Dyna S systems. The backing plate and modules are the same the difference is in the black rotor that bolts to the timing advance. This would be the worst case for sure. Check the wiring first. It is probably the simplest thing. I sometimes get tunnel vision and over look the obvious. Start fresh and follow the instructions to the letter.

i am going to test the voltage and see what i have.

 

[avbove38]

Make sure your plugs are good, recently rebuilt carbs on bike that had been sitting a long while, would crank but not spark, put in new plugs fired right up. terrylee

havent rebuilt the carbs yet but i did think of changing the plugs out. I held the plug in my hand while starting. I expected a little jolt but nothing. Im going to change the plugs just to eliminate a simple thing but im leaning toward ignition issue or coils.

 

[avbove38]

while we are on this. can someone explain the order of the electrical. what I mean is the power starts at this point and ends here. what part follows the next. i.e. the battery powers the coil, the power then goes to...etc..im wanting to know the order of tracing the issue as this would make it easier for me to trace the issue. ive seen mechanics go crazy trying to figure out an electrical issue because they went out of order. I hope i make sense here.

 

[Killer2600]

while we are on this. can someone explain the order of the electrical. what I mean is the power starts at this point and ends here. what part follows the next. i.e. the battery powers the coil, the power then goes to...etc..im wanting to know the order of tracing the issue as this would make it easier for me to trace the issue. ive seen mechanics go crazy trying to figure out an electrical issue because they went out of order. I hope i make sense here.

Battery (+) -> Fuse -> Ignition Switch -> Fuse -> Kill Switch -> Coil -> Dyna S -> Ground

That's the basic path from battery positive to battery negative for the ignition system. In addition to the kill switch feeding the coil it also has to feed the 12v connection for the dyna S.

 

[TheCafeKid]

You should also make sure that whomever installed the Dyna put a mechanical advancer on it. The later models used an electronic advance, and when you install a Dyna to replace the igniter, you must install a mech advancer from an earlier model.

 

[avbove38]

Battery (+) -> Fuse -> Ignition Switch -> Fuse -> Kill Switch -> Coil -> Dyna S -> Ground

That's the basic path from battery positive to battery negative for the ignition system. In addition to the kill switch feeding the coil it also has to feed the 12v connection for the dyna S.

thanks. this makes troubleshooting easier.:dancing:

 

[mike_of_bbg]

TCK, the 850GLZ appears to have come equipped with mechanical advance already.

Don't hold the spark plug in your hand to check for spark! The plug needs to be grounded: usually we can just hold it against the metal head (with the wire attached of course). It might be hard to see in bright light, but there should be a bright blue spark across the gap. If the plug insulator is black, that's a sign of carbon fouling, in which case the spark won't jump the gap but just travel through the carbon to ground. You can soak the plugs in white vinegar overnight to remove any built-up carbon. Or just get new ones.

To test your coils:

Unplug the low-voltage primary side and set your multi-tester to the lowest ohm range. Across the input leads you should measure about 3 ohms.

For the secondaries, unplug the boots in pairs from 1&4: set your ohmmeter to the highest ohm range, or at least 50Kohms. Measure across the plug caps where the plugs connect. For stock coils, the coil itself is about 15Kohms, the wires have negligible resistance, and the caps are either about 10Kohms each (for stock) or maybe 5Kohms (for NGKs). That would make your total about 22K-40Kohms. If it's very high you can unscrew the plug caps from the wires and test those individually. Often they go bad when they get older and their resistances go WAY up.

But first, definitely ground the plugs when you test them.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Ok. I wasn't sure when they went to electronic, 81 or 82...

 

[avbove38]

TCK, the 850GLZ appears to have come equipped with mechanical advance already.

Don't hold the spark plug in your hand to check for spark!


The plug needs to be grounded: usually we can just hold it against the metal head (with the wire attached of course). It might be hard to see in bright light, but there should be a bright blue spark across the gap. If the plug insulator is black, that's a sign of carbon fouling, in which case the spark won't jump the gap but just travel through the carbon to ground. You can soak the plugs in white vinegar overnight to remove any built-up carbon. Or just get new ones.

To test your coils:

Unplug the low-voltage primary side and set your multi-tester to the lowest ohm range. Across the input leads you should measure about 3 ohms.

For the secondaries, unplug the boots in pairs from 1&4: set your ohmmeter to the highest ohm range, or at least 50Kohms. Measure across the plug caps where the plugs connect. For stock coils, the coil itself is about 15Kohms, the wires have negligible resistance, and the caps are either about 10Kohms each (for stock) or maybe 5Kohms (for NGKs). That would make your total about 22K-40Kohms. If it's very high you can unscrew the plug caps from the wires and test those individually. Often they go bad when they get older and their resistances go WAY up.

But first, definitely ground the plugs when you test them.

Im aware this isnt correct. When I didnt see spark I wanted to see if it was bad lighting as it was quite bright out. Ive done this several times before when no spark was apparent. Im not crazy I just know if I dont see it this will jolt me if im blind.

Im getting a voltage tester today. one tool i dont have any longer.

 

[avbove38]

You should also make sure that whomever installed the Dyna put a mechanical advancer on it. The later models used an electronic advance, and when you install a Dyna to replace the igniter, you must install a mech advancer from an earlier model.

Dont know what a mechanical advancer looks like. Where is it
And if there isnt one where do i find one?

Seems easier to put the original ignition back.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

See the signal generator parts fiche for your model (1982 GS850GLZ), it's part #4, shown as a unit with rotor:

The Dyna S wiring is much simpler than the stock ignition, and they're known to be pretty reliable - arguably more so than the stock ignition. Are you certain yet that you are not getting spark? Have you checked your voltage at the coils?

The wiring couldn't be simpler. The Dyna S was designed to replace points, so the "igniter" as it were is built into the "sig gen" unit. There are only three wires: a switched +12V in (usually tapped with one of the coils) and two negative leads going right to the coils. The Dyna itself is grounded against the block. The coils keep their +12V switched on the orange/white wires, and the other leads are connected to the black or white leads from the Dyna. That's it.

 

[avbove38]

See the signal generator parts fiche for your model (1982 GS850GLZ), it's part #4, shown as a unit with rotor:

The Dyna S wiring is much simpler than the stock ignition, and they're known to be pretty reliable - arguably more so than the stock ignition. Are you certain yet that you are not getting spark? Have you checked your voltage at the coils?

The wiring couldn't be simpler. The Dyna S was designed to replace points, so the "igniter" as it were is built into the "sig gen" unit. There are only three wires: a switched +12V in (usually tapped with one of the coils) and two negative leads going right to the coils. The Dyna itself is grounded against the block. The coils keep their +12V switched on the orange/white wires, and the other leads are connected to the black or white leads from the Dyna. That's it.

positive theres no spark. I just borrowed my friends voltmeter about to check things.