Symptom of Bad Battery?

[Guest]

When I brought my bike home it ran pretty well, a little lean I think (took a 2-3 minutes to warm up and has an aftermarket exhaust) but never had issues idling. Fast forward to this week and I did some work on the bike, and I took off/drained the tank for some paint. My battery also was running a bit low, it cranked slow and wouldn't start but I had a motorcycle charger in the mail so it sat for a few days.

I charged it, hooked everything back up and it starts immediately on the first crank like it did when I brought it home. Unfortunately now it won't idle for crap, even with the choke on. It will stay at 2000/2500 rpms with the choke and then slowly lower down and once it gets to around 1200 it just dies. I can play with the choke to keep it steady but after a minute or two it just can't hold the idle and dies. It seems to be running a little rougher too

It sounds like it could be the battery is toast, OR that some sediment got in the fuel lines when I took the tank off and it's plugging the carbs up. Or both?


Other things to note:
- with the headlight on and engine running, it dims when turning the signals on or applying the brake
- the PO recently put in a new stator
- R/R from a CBR and wired to the battery, grounds look good
- new plugs, caps and wires look newer
- battery is 3ish years old, and a Trugel model (crap?)
- PO says he redid the carbs recently, the boots are soft and look good if that's any indication

I'm going to be picking up a volt meter this weekend after my MSF course too btw.

[posplayr]

do a QUICK TEST










Charging system sanity Quick Test

[Killer2600]

do a QUICK TEST
Charging system sanity Quick Test

Oh brother....Anyway you can't do those tests without a volt meter...

You can do THIS quick test, when the bike crumbles to it's death (dies):
A) Do the lights go very dim and just about die with the bike?
B) Does the bike succumb to it's demise quicker if the high beams are turned ON?
C) Does the bike crank at normal full speed right after it dies in a restart attempt (whether it starts or not is irrelevant)?

If your answers are NO, NO, YES in that order then your battery is not the culprit.

As for a rough test of the charging system, turn the key on with the low beams on and the engine off. Take a close look at the brightness of either your headlight, dash light, or some light. Start the bike and observe the same light at idle and higher (2500 for you I suppose) rpms. The light should get brighter at the higher rpms (you may even see it flutter like florescent lights do). The key on engine off brightness is your base line to determine drain or charge.

Personally I think you have a fuel delivery problem but just to cover all the bases your concerned with those are tests you can do without waiting for and paying for a volt meter and they are MUCH quicker than Posplayr's suggested "Quick Test"

[koolaid_kid]

Oh brother....Anyway you can't do those tests without a volt meter...

Just a quick note, a GS owner without a multimeter is like a hooker without a streetlight, in the dark and clueless.

[posplayr]

Oh brother....Anyway you can't do those tests without a volt meter...

You can do THIS quick test, when the bike crumbles to it's death (dies):
A) Do the lights go very dim and just about die with the bike?
B) Does the bike succumb to it's demise quicker if the high beams are turned ON?
C) Does the bike crank at normal full speed right after it dies in a restart attempt (whether it starts or not is irrelevant)?

If your answers are NO, NO, YES in that order then your battery is not the culprit.

As for a rough test of the charging system, turn the key on with the low beams on and the engine off. Take a close look at the brightness of either your headlight, dash light, or some light. Start the bike and observe the same light at idle and higher (2500 for you I suppose) rpms. The light should get brighter at the higher rpms (you may even see it flutter like florescent lights do). The key on engine off brightness is your base line to determine drain or charge.

Personally I think you have a fuel delivery problem but just to cover all the bases your concerned with those are tests you can do without waiting for and paying for a volt meter and they are MUCH quicker than Posplayr's suggested "Quick Test"

Killer, I now know where you got your handle from...........

"You are killing me"


Personally I think you would do better to put your finger on the single point ground bolt I have described and see how hot it gets as you change the headlamp settings.

[Killer2600]

Just a quick note, a GS owner without a multimeter is like a hooker without a streetlight, in the dark and clueless.

This assumes that all GS owners mechanics or know how to use a multi-meter.

I dunno about you but, I don't get my hookers off the street.

Killer, I now know where you got your handle from...........

"You are killing me"


Personally I think you would do better to put your finger on the single point ground bolt I have described and see how hot it gets as you change the headlamp settings.

Well like I said I personally think it's a fuel delivery problem and electrical is wishful thinking. But again if you want to check your electrical you can do those things without even having to buy a volt meter or turn a screw. Why adjust valves when you have a problem with the rear brake dragging?

[posplayr]

This assumes that all GS owners mechanics or know how to use a multi-meter.

I dunno about you but, I don't get my hookers off the street.



Well like I said I personally think it's a fuel delivery problem and electrical is wishful thinking. But again if you want to check your electrical you can do those things without even having to buy a volt meter or turn a screw. Why adjust valves when you have a problem with the rear brake dragging?

Gee whiz, I wish I had know that before; I would not have had to go out a buy a voltmeter(30 years after the fact).........................

[BUSARIDER]

take the battery to autozone, walmart, oreileys, checkers, advance auto parts or some place similar and they will check it free of charge .

[Killer2600]

Gee whiz, I wish I had know that before; I would not have had to go out a buy a voltmeter(30 years after the fact).........................

I'm getting an idea where your SN came from...but back to topic, don't hate because the tests work. You like volt meters but not only do alot of people not know how to even use/utilize them, they don't diagnosis fuel delivery problems on these old bikes.

[posplayr]

I'm getting an idea where your SN came from...but back to topic, don't hate because the tests work. You like volt meters but not only do alot of people not know how to even use/utilize them, they don't diagnosis fuel delivery problems on these old bikes.

I'm sure you have no idea where my handle came from go ahead and try)

Killer it really would be a full time job to correct all the false and misleading statements you make as well as the illogical conclusions you draw. Except for the fact that you keep posting them here I could care less. However since you persist............

The PO already diagnosed the problem to be either electrical or clogged carburetors (you have any other ideas?Perhaps the air in the tires? Valves need adjust? Steering stem bearings loose?)

The PO already said he was going to buy a volt meter.

With respect to what you can do with a volt meter........In this case for minimizing restore time for his bike (from the current condition) to a "good" operating condition (i.e. the minimization of MTTR), deducing that there is no electrical problem is the primary means to isolating the problem to the carburetors.

This minimizes MTTR because the Quick Test is both (virtually) conclusive to demonstrate functionality of the electrical system as well as being quite a much quicker than pulling the carbs for a cleaning. I won't bore everyone with the mathematics; you will just have to take my word for it based on the common sense of the concept.

So while your "lights/bright/temperature sensitivity touchy feely test" may be of some value, I'm very sure I would NOT want to pull a set of carbs based on those electrical test results alone without at least confirming that the voltages were correct using a volt meter.

[Killer2600]

I'm sure you have no idea where my handle came from go ahead and try)

Killer it really would be a full time job to correct all the false and misleading statements you make as well as the illogical conclusions you draw. Except for the fact that you keep posting them here I could care less. However since you persist............

The PO already diagnosed the problem to be either electrical or clogged carburetors (you have any other ideas?Perhaps the air in the tires? Valves need adjust? Steering stem bearings loose?)

The PO already said he was going to buy a volt meter.

With respect to what you can do with a volt meter........In this case for minimizing restore time for his bike (from the current condition) to a "good" operating condition (i.e. the minimization of MTTR), deducing that there is no electrical problem is the primary means to isolating the problem to the carburetors.

This minimizes MTTR because the Quick Test is both (virtually) conclusive to demonstrate functionality of the electrical system as well as being quite a much quicker than pulling the carbs for a cleaning. I won't bore everyone with the mathematics; you will just have to take my word for it based on the common sense of the concept.

So while your "lights/bright/temperature sensitivity touchy feely test" may be of some value, I'm very sure I would NOT want to pull a set of carbs based on those electrical test results alone without at least confirming that the voltages were correct using a volt meter.

I'd really like to know where my logic has failed.

While the usual "do this to your 30 year old bike" may be nice to take care of and fix things that have broke or are yet to break, I work with the mindset of a diagnostic technician, I cut to the chase. Throwing parts at it, running around checking miscellaneous stuff just 'cause, and fixing things that aren't broke are DIYer amateur stuff that I just don't do. Basically a faster MTTR than your suggesting because yes he is planning on getting a volt meter in a few days but why wait to repair a VERY likely NON-electrical issue?

[koolaid_kid]

Killer, please, for everyone's sake, settle down. You are new to the site and I respect that. However, pos(itional) player happens to be a highly regarded member of this forum and a senior electrical engineer (as am I). We really, really never offer gratuitous recommendations, especially to new members. Neither does Steve, whom you may not have encountered yet.
And if you do not own, and/or refuse to use or learn how to use, a multimeter, then you need to sell your GS and buy a modern motorcycle.
The one weak point on the GS series of bikes is their electrical system. Wring, connectors, charging and ignition. All. Period. It absolutely must be gone through stem to stern. If you cannot or will not do this, please sell the bike and buy a modern one; it will fail when and where you least expect it. It is usually in the middle of nowhere, because that is how it works. For example, at the last Red River Valley we had 3 bikes go down due to electrical failures. All due to lack of diligence in maintaining their electrical systems.
Off my soapbox, and I hope you take this post in the friendly, helpful spirit in which it was written.

[bakalorz]

I'd really like to know where my logic has failed.

While the usual "do this to your 30 year old bike" may be nice to take care of and fix things that have broke or are yet to break, I work with the mindset of a diagnostic technician, I cut to the chase. Throwing parts at it, running around checking miscellaneous stuff just 'cause, and fixing things that aren't broke are DIYer amateur stuff that I just don't do. Basically a faster MTTR than your suggesting because yes he is planning on getting a volt meter in a few days but why wait to repair a VERY likely NON-electrical issue?

I agree with killer ... reading the symptoms it's extremely unlikely to be an electrical problem ... and even if it were electrical it's likely to be related to the ignition system (which pos's quick test doesn't address) rather than the charging system and battery ...

FWIW, when I got my bike, one leg of the stator was not connected, the R/R was shot, and the battery had so little life it wouldn't even turn the bike over immediately AFTER sitting on the charger overnight ... but if I push-started it, the bike ran no problem ...

It's likely a fuel problem, maybe an ignition system problem ... it's NOT a battery or charging system problem ... anyone thinks otherwise: put your money where your mouth is ... I'll give you 2-1 odds ($10 gets you $20) money to be held by a neutral 3rd party: its not the battery or charging system after the OP tracks it down and cures it ...

Any takers ...

[Killer2600]

Killer, please, for everyone's sake, settle down. You are new to the site and I respect that. However, pos(itional) player happens to be a highly regarded member of this forum and a senior electrical engineer (as am I). We really, really never offer gratuitous recommendations, especially to new members. Neither does Steve, whom you may not have encountered yet.
And if you do not own, and/or refuse to use or learn how to use, a multimeter, then you need to sell your GS and buy a modern motorcycle.
The one weak point on the GS series of bikes is their electrical system. Wring, connectors, charging and ignition. All. Period. It absolutely must be gone through stem to stern. If you cannot or will not do this, please sell the bike and buy a modern one; it will fail when and where you least expect it. It is usually in the middle of nowhere, because that is how it works. For example, at the last Red River Valley we had 3 bikes go down due to electrical failures. All due to lack of diligence in maintaining their electrical systems.
Off my soapbox, and I hope you take this post in the friendly, helpful spirit in which it was written.

Lots of assumptions are being made on both sides but I think I give more credit than I'm given. Your job titles and forum join date are nice but last I checked fuel delivery wasn't an electrical item so electrical engineer, might as well be a physician for all that's relevant. And if you are an EE then you know I'm right so why do you debate it?

But hey if my help isn't wanted then I won't offer it, after your foolish side trip to checking the charging system and cleaning up grounds, connectors, and the ignition switch, you can ohm out and check voltage drops on fuel tank to diagnose fuel starvation too because you guys are too smart to take other advice/ideas.

FTR I would have a join date equal to or longer than posplayr but GSResources in recent year has implemented dropping users that don't log in within 6 month intervals.

[koolaid_kid]

Sigh. There are a lot of assumptions being made on both sides, I agree. Let's dissect the orginal post:

When I brought my bike home it ran pretty well, a little lean I think (took a 2-3 minutes to warm up

This indicates a fueling issue.

My battery also was running a bit low, it cranked slow and wouldn't start but I had a motorcycle charger in the mail so it sat for a few days.

This indicates a possible electrical problem.

Unfortunately now it won't idle for crap, even with the choke on. It will stay at 2000/2500 rpms with the choke and then slowly lower down and once it gets to around 1200 it just dies. I can play with the choke to keep it steady but after a minute or two it just can't hold the idle and dies. It seems to be running a little rougher too

This is most certainly a fueling issue.

It sounds like it could be the battery is toast, OR that some sediment got in the fuel lines when I took the tank off and it's plugging the carbs up. Or both?

This is merely conjecture.

Other things to note:
- with the headlight on and engine running, it dims when turning the signals on or applying the brake

This is most certainly an electrical issue.

- the PO recently put in a new stator

Unless the current owner saw it installed or removed the cover to verify, this is merely second hand information.

- battery is 3ish years old, and a Trugel model (crap?)

The gel battery life should be longer than 3 years old, has the installation date been verified?

- PO says he redid the carbs recently, the boots are soft and look good if that's any indication

Merely a sales pitch, again. There are many unscrupulous sellers out there that will say anything to make the sale.

I'm going to be picking up a volt meter this weekend after my MSF course too btw.

This is excellent.
Neither I nor posplayer appreciate a negative nor a sarcastic attitude toward a tool that is as important as air in the tires.
This bike has 2 issues, both fueling and electrical.
There is a member on here, BassCliff, who has compiled a list of items that must be done when one purchases a GS. Both electrical and fuel investigations are included, along with many others. We were explaining one of them, electrical. He should also rebuild the carbs, which is another one.
Not sure why you chose to cop an attitude, especially when I made a jest to lighten things up, but I hope it fades away in time.
Peace.