Trouble Starting my 1985 GS550 ES

[wideris]

Hi Guys,

Sorry but I am definitely a noob (so be gentle!), and have realized that I'm probably not in the position to be dealing with a 27 year old bike. Despite that, I need to get my bike started in the mean time, as it's parked in Manhattan and I have drive my car to it and move it every day for street cleaning.

It was running fine a few days ago, I made a quick stop, came back out (bike still warm), tried to start it, probably gave too much gas or had too much choke (not sure which), but it led to me draining the battery. I bought a battery charger, charged the battery and went back down today to start it, and it was just chugging but never turning over. I then opened the screw at the bottom of the carbs to let the gas out, and then tried again and heard it almost start, but my battery died soon after again. I'm thinking, since gas was low when I had problems starting, that maybe I sucked some crap into the carbs, but again, not sure. I used to have an older Honda that had a kick start, and I could always fix issues like this with a series of hard kicks, but alas, no kick starter on this one. Any suggestions for getting it started? Any process beyond adding oil (not sure if that would have anything to do with it), adding gas, or opening the screw at the bottom of the carb would need to be explained, because, as I said earlier, I'm a super noob with this stuff.

Thank you for any suggestions!!!

[tom203]

I'd go to Lowe's and rent one of their pickup trucks for an hour, get some 2 by 10 planks and find a couple of street people to help you ramp it in . Diagnosing starting problems on a Manhatten street doesn't sound like fun!
I doubt you flooded it (no choke plates like your old honda), probably electrical-try new fuses, make sure nobody switched spark plug leads around in case they didn't like your parking.

[wideris]

I'd go to Lowe's and rent one of their pickup trucks for an hour, get some 2 by 10 planks and find a couple of street people to help you ramp it in . Diagnosing starting problems on a Manhatten street doesn't sound like fun!
I doubt you flooded it (no choke plates like your old honda), probably electrical-try new fuses, make sure nobody switched spark plug leads around in case they didn't like your parking.

Can I hook up my car battery to the two battery terminals on the bike to see if I can get it to start, or am I risking electrical damage?

[spyug]

First off welcome aboard. Nice to see more 550s coming on. I f you don't know the history of the bike then it is safe to assume that the carbs need cleaning.You are probably correct that they are somewhat gummed up. So a cleaning would be the first suggestion. In the meanwhile you could try running some Seafoam through a tank or two of gas (if you can eventually get it going). About 1/3 of a can per tank. It will smoke like a chimney but it should clean the carbs to get you going in the short term.

You should know that GSs are cold blooded and require some choke to start. So proper starting procedure is choke full on, no throttle and clutch in of course.Once it revs high start reducing the choke until you are back to idle. That's how it should be done.

Just to expand on it a bit. These bikes are also hard to start if the valves are not adjusted properly. Over time the valve train tightens down (no clearance between top of the valves and rocker arms) resulting in valves that don't open correctly. Adjustments should be done every 6000miles or so but seldom are so its very likely they need doing.

While all bikes need properly working carbs and adjusted valves, the spark is also extremely important (duh!). If the battery is weak so will the spark be. Batteries need to be better than 12.5 volts to both turn the starter fast enough and provide the spark. At 12 or 11 or even 9 volts the starter will spin but there won't be enough juice for spark too so cranking away is going to get you nowhere. For some hard starting situations it is often helpful to boost it from an automotive or marine battery. Just make sure the battery is not in a running vehicle or you can fry your bikes electrics and those 550 igniters are now unobtainium so don't kill it.

You have quite a bit to do but there is no real easy and quick solution. The Seafoam may help for now but you need to clean those carbs, check those valves and electrics. Fortunately, all the help you need is here. Bass Cliff's website has all the tutorials you need and his mega welcome ( which he may have sent you) has all kinds of other useful info.

Do some studying and start in on a tidy-up. Its really not hard and with a few basic tools and willingness to learn you are capable of tuning up this puppy.

Good luck,
Spyug

PS As you may have read, we love pics so lets see whatcha got.

[tom203]

Can I hook up my car battery to the two battery terminals on the bike to see if I can get it to start, or am I risking electrical damage?

This is ok, just DON'T have car engine running! If it justs cranks, you have other problems, so don't kill your starter motor.

[wideris]

First off welcome aboard. Nice to see more 550s coming on. I f you don't know the history of the bike then it is safe to assume that the carbs need cleaning.You are probably correct that they are somewhat gummed up. So a cleaning would be the first suggestion. In the meanwhile you could try running some Seafoam through a tank or two of gas (if you can eventually get it going). About 1/3 of a can per tank. It will smoke like a chimney but it should clean the carbs to get you going in the short term.

You should know that GSs are cold blooded and require some choke to start. So proper starting procedure is choke full on, no throttle and clutch in of course.Once it revs high start reducing the choke until you are back to idle. That's how it should be done.

Just to expand on it a bit. These bikes are also hard to start if the valves are not adjusted properly. Over time the valve train tightens down (no clearance between top of the valves and rocker arms) resulting in valves that don't open correctly. Adjustments should be done every 6000miles or so but seldom are so its very likely they need doing.

While all bikes need properly working carbs and adjusted valves, the spark is also extremely important (duh!). If the battery is weak so will the spark be. Batteries need to be better than 12.5 volts to both turn the starter fast enough and provide the spark. At 12 or 11 or even 9 volts the starter will spin but there won't be enough juice for spark too so cranking away is going to get you nowhere. For some hard starting situations it is often helpful to boost it from an automotive or marine battery. Just make sure the battery is not in a running vehicle or you can fry your bikes electrics and those 550 igniters are now unobtainium so don't kill it.

You have quite a bit to do but there is no real easy and quick solution. The Seafoam may help for now but you need to clean those carbs, check those valves and electrics. Fortunately, all the help you need is here. Bass Cliff's website has all the tutorials you need and his mega welcome ( which he may have sent you) has all kinds of other useful info.

Do some studying and start in on a tidy-up. Its really not hard and with a few basic tools and willingness to learn you are capable of tuning up this puppy.

Good luck,
Spyug

PS As you may have read, we love pics so lets see whatcha got.

Thanks so much for the warm welcome. I actually bought Seafoam in hopes of avoiding a carb cleaning. As I don't know how to do it myself, I'm looking at like $350 at the cheapest place nearby on a bike I paid $600 for...so hoping to avoid it if I can get her started.

Let me add that I actually had a problem initially with the battery, because the old owner had thrown in an undersized battery, and then I tried to jump it (with the car on!!!!!), and shorted it out. The repair shop told me they replaced the electrical? (wiring harness?) and it started fine after they fixed it. If I connect the car battery to the bike while it's still connected to the car is that okay, as long as the car is not running?

[tom203]

More clues!! I'm sticking with electrical problems . Repair shops are a risky proposition- sometimes they like you so much, they want you to return often. As spyug said....
" those 550 igniters are now unobtainium so don't kill it."

No jumping with a running vehicle ever again!

[spyug]

Let me add that I actually had a problem initially with the battery, because the old owner had thrown in an undersized battery, and then I tried to jump it (with the car on!!!!!), and shorted it out. The repair shop told me they replaced the electrical? (wiring harness?) and it started fine after they fixed it. If I connect the car battery to the bike while it's still connected to the car is that okay, as long as the car is not running?

The absolute worst thing you can do to these bikes is to boost them from a running vehicle. You will do harm to your bike's electricals and most likely the hardest hit will be the igniter. As I mentioned, they are impossible to find used in working condition and while there are some aftermarket solutions they are not cheap either, so be careful with boosters. It is fine to connect it to the battery in the car just don't have the car running.

If you have to pay a shop to get your bike worked on it will bankrupt you and often they don't know what they are doing and will break something else. If you want to own one of these gems you need to learn to work on it yourself. At first it may seem overwhelming and daunting but with a bit of patience and half an effort you can do most everything you need to get it running right. There is the combined wisdom of thousands of GS fans here and we all want you to succeed so put forth the effort and we'll back you up.

You may be a bit hampered by your locale. working in the street is not going to be easy and you stand the risk of some goof messing with your work. Can you find some secure place to work on it? You also need some basic metric wrenches, a socket set and some philips screw drivers and importantly, a digital multimeter and a circuit test light. All available from good hardware stores or automotive stores. It will also help if you have a manual for the bike and if you go to Cliff's site a copy is right there for you.

My favourite saying passed to me by my late dad was, "If you want something done right, do it yourself". In the case of many things and GSs in particular those should be the words to guide you.

Now pour some Seafoam in that baby, clamp on a battery and get her going.Once you have that sorted start reading and prepare to commence wrenching. I'll bet you may even enjoy it. there is no finer sense of accomplishment than to sort something out yourself.

Good luck and keep us informed of how it goes.

Cheers,
Spyug

[wideris]

The absolute worst thing you can do to these bikes is to boost them from a running vehicle. You will do harm to your bike's electricals and most likely the hardest hit will be the igniter. As I mentioned, they are impossible to find used in working condition and while there are some aftermarket solutions they are not cheap either, so be careful with boosters. It is fine to connect it to the battery in the car just don't have the car running.

If you have to pay a shop to get your bike worked on it will bankrupt you and often they don't know what they are doing and will break something else. If you want to own one of these gems you need to learn to work on it yourself. At first it may seem overwhelming and daunting but with a bit of patience and half an effort you can do most everything you need to get it running right. There is the combined wisdom of thousands of GS fans here and we all want you to succeed so put forth the effort and we'll back you up.

You may be a bit hampered by your locale. working in the street is not going to be easy and you stand the risk of some goof messing with your work. Can you find some secure place to work on it? You also need some basic metric wrenches, a socket set and some philips screw drivers and importantly, a digital multimeter and a circuit test light. All available from good hardware stores or automotive stores. It will also help if you have a manual for the bike and if you go to Cliff's site a copy is right there for you.

My favourite saying passed to me by my late dad was, "If you want something done right, do it yourself". In the case of many things and GSs in particular those should be the words to guide you.

Now pour some Seafoam in that baby, clamp on a battery and get her going.Once you have that sorted start reading and prepare to commence wrenching. I'll bet you may even enjoy it. there is no finer sense of accomplishment than to sort something out yourself.

Good luck and keep us informed of how it goes.

Cheers,
Spyug

Again, thanks for the encouraging words...Unfortunately I don't really have a place to work on it, except the sidewalk in front of my building (which is more uptown and there is space, but by no means ideal). In terms of getting it started now--are there any tricks to pushing some of the gunk through the carbs (like kick starting could sometimes fix)? At this point, I don't want to add seafoam until I can start it right? And in terms of the oil--my honda had a built in oil stick to check the level, this does not--any chance low oil could impact starting? I looked in and couldn't see any, but I know it's at the bottom. Any harm in adding some? I know I'm just throwing things out here, but it's just a real pain to drive to the bike every day to have it not start, so I figure the next time I go down I should have a plan....

[spyug]

Now there is no problem with using Seafoam right away. As far as any tricks to push things through, not really.

To have the best chance of starting make sure your battery is fully charged and use that booster that we spoke of. Do the full choke method and don't touch the throttle, even if and when it seems like its running but poorly. Let it get warmed up.

To check and see if you are getting gas, pull the plugs and check for wetness. If its cranking over with not catching they should be wet if the carbs are working.

You should check to be sure you have spark too.Pull a plug and with it attached, rest it on the head, crank it over and check for spark. It should be blue and fairly thick.

If it looks like you are not getting gas you can put a few drops in each cylinder to 'prime the pump" as it were. Whatever you do, don't be tempted to use "Quickstart" or anything like that as they can be too powerful(if overused) and can damage the head.

With a good automotive booster battery, you can crank for quite awhile but don't keep cranking away without a few minutes rest between attempts or you could burn out your solenoid.

If nothing gets it going then I'm afraid you will need to start wrenching as I previously mentioned.

Good luck,
spyug

[MisterCinders]

Now there is no problem with using Seafoam right away. As far as any tricks to push things through, not really.

To have the best chance of starting make sure your battery is fully charged and use that booster that we spoke of. Do the full choke method and don't touch the throttle, even if and when it seems like its running but poorly. Let it get warmed up.

To check and see if you are getting gas, pull the plugs and check for wetness. If its cranking over with not catching they should be wet if the carbs are working.

You should check to be sure you have spark too.Pull a plug and with it attached, rest it on the head, crank it over and check for spark. It should be blue and fairly thick.

If it looks like you are not getting gas you can put a few drops in each cylinder to 'prime the pump" as it were. Whatever you do, don't be tempted to use "Quickstart" or anything like that as they can be too powerful(if overused) and can damage the head.

With a good automotive booster battery, you can crank for quite awhile but don't keep cranking away without a few minutes rest between attempts or you could burn out your solenoid.

If nothing gets it going then I'm afraid you will need to start wrenching as I previously mentioned.

Good luck,
spyug

After cranking a few times without starting, I like to let the bike rest a minute after making any adjustment (idle screw, etc.). Repeated failed cranking can load the cylinder with excess fuel. When it does start, that extra fuel sometimes will kick-off with a hearty backfire.

[JEEPRUSTY]

If you use the seafoam follow the directions and do not overdose the tank with it.

[JEEPRUSTY]

Again, thanks for the encouraging words...Unfortunately I don't really have a place to work on it, except the sidewalk in front of my building (which is more uptown and there is space, but by no means ideal). In terms of getting it started now--are there any tricks to pushing some of the gunk through the carbs (like kick starting could sometimes fix)? At this point, I don't want to add seafoam until I can start it right? And in terms of the oil--my honda had a built in oil stick to check the level, this does not--any chance low oil could impact starting? I looked in and couldn't see any, but I know it's at the bottom. Any harm in adding some? I know I'm just throwing things out here, but it's just a real pain to drive to the bike every day to have it not start, so I figure the next time I go down I should have a plan....

It may help to drain the float bowls then fill them via the gas line with carb cleaner.
Let it soak
drain
repeat.


I would not add oil unless it was low.

[JEEPRUSTY]

[QUOTE=wideris;1648759]Hi Guys,


It was running fine a few days ago, I made a quick stop, came back out (bike still warm), tried to start it, probably gave too much gas or had too much choke (not sure which), but it led to me draining the battery.

The bike will be hard to start if parked hot and left long for a time. Mine always does this in summer and it is as though it is out of gas in spite of having a full tank. The only thing that seem to resolve it is letting the bike get stone stone cold and trying again.

Choke is useless in this situation and you should turn the petcock to prime to allow fuel to flow into the carbs. The petcock has a fliter in the tank so only very fine particles can pass through. The Needle valve seats also have a dome shaped filter screen over them as a second filtration point.

You have depleted the battery and it needs to be properly charged.
Yoou can jump the battery from a non-running automobile but unless you get fule back to the bowls you are just going to crank to no avail.

A couple of burly friends and a bump start might be the ticket to get it spinning fast enough to engage the vacuum actuated petcock but use the prime position until the bike starts them immediatley switch to the on position.

[wideris]

You guys have been very helpful! Much appreciated!!

I'm 90% sure I'm understanding everything in terms of the engine parts...

To check and see if you are getting gas, pull the plugs and check for wetness. If its cranking over with not catching they should be wet if the carbs are working.

Just to clarify, I've been loosening the screw at the bottom of the 2 carbs and fuel has come out each time after trying to start it up (I also was giving it a bit of gas, which seems to be an issue...)---does that indicate that the carbs are working? and does that mean "I'm getting fuel back to the bowls"?

Is it possible the idle screw could be impacting my starting it up? I know the mechanic made a few last minute adjustments on the idle screw before handing it over last week, and I just wanted to see if there's anything there that might need to be looked at...


And lastly--what do I need to remove the plugs (tool-wise)?

Thanks!!