Is it possible to have a 'weak' starter?

[Guest]

The 850 is having trouble these days. When I went out to start it today, the starter spun quite a while and sounded normal, but would not start the bike, After I ran the battery down a fair amount trying to start it, I pushed it and it started and ran like a champ and got me to the hardware store. When I came back out, again, it sounded like it was turning OK, but still would not start. This time I was able to push start it in about 1/2 the length of a parking space.

I'm sure I'm not the first with this problem, but apparently I could not think of the proper search terms to look this problem up. The starter didn't 'sound' slow or weak, but I was able to push start it so easily, so I"m not sure what else to blame. I have seen the DIY on repairing starters, etc. However, It was unclear to me what the symptoms were before people tore into them.

Has anyone experienced this issue that can give some guidance?

Thanks,
Chris

[koolaid_kid]

Do you have a version of the coil relay mod? If the voltage at the coils drops too low it won't start when the starter is drawing its 40-50 Amps.
To test: get to the 12V input of one of the coils (same wire basically). Check the voltage when the starter is engaged.

[Gibbelstein]

Well, I haven't done the mod but I haven't checked to see if a PO had done it.

Just to be sure I understand: Are you saying the relay mod could be keeping the coils from getting the juice it needs to fire?

[tom203]

Well, I haven't done the mod but I haven't checked to see if a PO had done it.

Just to be sure I understand: Are you saying the relay mod could be keeping the coils from getting the juice it needs to fire?

No, the coil relay helps to give the ignition system the highest voltage especially during cranking. Since your bike bump started (even after running the battery down), I'd suspect a weak battery (OK till really stressed) or a starter motor that's taking more juice than it used to.

[Killer2600]

No, the coil relay helps to give the ignition system the highest voltage especially during cranking. Since your bike bump started (even after running the battery down), I'd suspect a weak battery (OK till really stressed) or a starter motor that's taking more juice than it used to.

I'll throw in bad/dirty connections at the battery or in the ignition system. I'll also wager that the coil relay mod has NOT been done.

[Gibbelstein]

I'd be surprised if it were the battery because I tossed a motobatt in there in October and it was on a battery tender over the winter. I'll try putting the load tester on there today to see what I can see.

Initially I thought it had difficulty this morning because it has been sitting for a couple of weeks, but then when it wouldn't start again at the store, I didn't know what to make of it.

I guess I still need to check my voltages to get a better picture of what's going on.

[Gibbelstein]

Well, hell... I just walked out to the bike and she fired right up. Battery connection look fine. I've got it hooked up th the battery tender until tomorrow evening or Monday.

I'll have to figure this thing out another day...

[tom203]

Well, hell... I just walked out to the bike and she fired right up. Battery connection look fine. I've got it hooked up th the battery tender until tomorrow evening or Monday.

I'll have to figure this thing out another day...

Yes, or you will get real good at bump starting! Even new batteries can fail , so definitely have yours load tested.

[Redman]

.....Initially I thought it had difficulty this morning because it has been sitting for a couple of weeks, but then when it wouldn't start again at the store, I didn't know what to make of it.
..
..

Maybe your trip to the store wasnt enough to recharge the battery.

See how it goes after battery on charger for longer.

...

I guess I still need to check my voltages to get a better picture of what's going on.

Yes.



And, yes, starters can get weak. Typically its the brushes get too short and dont make good contact on the commutator, and commutator gets buildup of the brush material on them. And then the starter has less power and turns engine slower.

Or weak battery (either marginal battery or charging system problem causeing battery to not be fully charged) can cause starter to run slower, in which case the battery voltage probably drops so low that ignition isnt working well either.

.

[TooManyToys]

The brushes and commutator can also get oily, which was my issue not worn brushes.

[tkent02]

If it can crank the engine a long time, the battery and the starter are fine. If the ignition won't spark while it's cranking, fix the low voltage issue.