Time to test/repair/replace the starter?

[cowboyup3371]

Thank you to everyone for your advice on helping me here. I cleaned stuff up as best I could and by doing a push test on the one brush that Ed refers to, I think I'll replace them. Essentially, it acts like it sticks and doesn't spring back very far. Looking inside after trying to clean in that holder, I think the spring isn't pushing it very well and it seems to catch on the holder itself. There's a lot of what I would call corrosion especially up under the brush slots. I also should replace both orings and maybe that oil seal for my sanity's sake if nothing else.

Now it's time to look at the budget and see if I can do it Friday or if I have to wait as I also received a phone call from Helena that the truck's alternator kicked the bucket. The shop was willing to bill me the labor but the parts killed some of my savings for the move.

I'll update this thread as I go.

[Redman]

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..Here are some pictures as well as a short video of what I saw.
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I'm assuming I need new brushes; anything else obvious to anyone?

As others have said, the commutator doesnt look worn at all. Is even and is flat. Maybe you can clean it up a bit.

And brushes do not look short at all. SOmetimes when starter isnt proforming well the brushes are worn right down to the that wire. And with them being short then the spring has lost some tension. But your do not look short at all. I wonder if they had already been replaced at some point.

But, yah, see what you ar saying about the plate being corroded. And maybe that why brush doesnt move smoothly.

No, do not put grease on it. Grease will collect the brush dust and jam up worse.

Maybe want to get a brush and plate kit, just so get new plate with new brush holders.

I dont know, I havent ever done it, but wonder if you can get another turn on that spring on the brush that doesn move smoothly. Brushes them selves look okay.

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[ekabil]

Hey there, not tryin to jack your thread, but I also am about to open my starter due to slow cranking. I have a gs1100glz, and if our bikes are similar, can I ask you how difficult it was to get the starter out? In the manual it says to remove tank, airbox, carbs, and in this thread someone said can chain tensioner. The carbs and all I can manage, but I don't know what a cam chain tensioner is. Is it possible to remove the starter motor without removing anything else? Anything I should keep in mind so I don't do any damage while taking it out?

[cowboyup3371]

I don't know about your bike but I would remove the carbs only because on MY bike the space is very small to do any work.

The cam chain tensioner will be that funny looking knob on the back of the engine that controls how well the cam chain stays in place. I thought I'd have to remove it (Clymers says to) but a universal joint adapter on the socket end of my ratchet let me get in there. Once the screws loosened up, my starter slid right out but I've heard others say you need a rubber mallet and a piece of wood to help knock it free.

[cowboyup3371]

As others have said, the commutator doesnt look worn at all. Is even and is flat. Maybe you can clean it up a bit.

And brushes do not look short at all. SOmetimes when starter isnt proforming well the brushes are worn right down to the that wire. And with them being short then the spring has lost some tension. But your do not look short at all. I wonder if they had already been replaced at some point.

But, yah, see what you ar saying about the plate being corroded. And maybe that why brush doesnt move smoothly.

No, do not put grease on it. Grease will collect the brush dust and jam up worse.

Maybe want to get a brush and plate kit, just so get new plate with new brush holders.

I dont know, I havent ever done it, but wonder if you can get another turn on that spring on the brush that doesn move smoothly. Brushes them selves look okay.

.

Thanks Redman. With the way my plate is designed, I'll get one brush already attached to a new one so I'm buying the second one as well. I'm thinking of also ordering new orings for the starter and the oil seal that sits in there. My thinking being I'm in there so might as well replace them. It will mean the bike is down longer than it could be but I'll also get new airbox boot clamps and oil filter since it's about due for a change.

[cowboyup3371]

Parts are In

Yea. Received my starter parts today finally but it's too hot to get out to the garage right now. I'll probably bring the housing inside later and put things together in the comfort of my AC. Fortunately tomorrow is supposed to only be in the low 90s so I'll install it and test then.



I'm itching to get this back on the road and really hope I don't have any more problems.

When I ordered everything, i didn't realize the plate would come with springs attached to it so if anyone needs new springs let me know and I'll drop them in the mail for you.

[cableguy]

Save all the extra in case YOU need them. Of course if you do that you'll never need them, but nothing wrong with that! You did check all of the wiring, right?

[cowboyup3371]

Save all the extra in case YOU need them. Of course if you do that you'll never need them, but nothing wrong with that! You did check all of the wiring, right?

Yea, I ran through some of it and will do more tomorrow.

And you're right, I'll probably not need them until I get rid of 'em.

[cowboyup3371]

Ugh

Just when things seem to go right, they go left on me.

Brought the starter inside to rebuild it as it's only 106* outside per my thermostat inside the house (probably actually only about 100 but who cares right?). And everything seemed to start off fine.

Got the commutator inside the housing:



Opened up the new brush holder (much better tension on the springs):



Put everything in the rear together:



Then started to button it up when I started having problems with the screws not lining up correctly. I fix that seeing the brush holder wasn't seated correctly in the housing, started to tighten down the screws and hear a crack. Before I heard this I noticed the bolt that should come through the housing was crooked but figured it would straighten out once everything tighted down. Yea, no.

Here's what I found:



The broken plastic top hat bush #2 busted. So I guess i'll be going to Autozone to find some sort of make do replacement.

[cableguy]

Well at least enjoy the A/C.

When I had mine apart I noticed I had to fiddle with it quite a bit to make everything line up and fit together so the 2 case pieces snapped in, and the threaded holes lined up. Careful you dont ding up the plate that holds the brushes and make sure you can turn the screws by hand at least 3 full turns so you know they aren't going to strip when you use the screwdriver. Good luck!

[cowboyup3371]

Bike is turning over again

After making a quick trip to Advance Auto last night and Ace Hardware this morning to pick these up:



the starter is finally back together properly and on the bike. First, I cut down the rubber washer from Ace's plumbing section to match up to the approximate size of the slot in the cap (short on one side but not too bad). Then, I trimmed the end off the vacuum plug from Advance (thanks Steve for that advice) and slid it right down onto the screw end.



Put everything else back on:



Installed it into the bike and after a short scare of nothing turning, the new starter brushes did their job and I can now hear the engine turning over. Now I just need to get the carbs back in their boots and go from there. I'll post that stuff back in the other thread I had. But at least that much is working now.


EDITED to Add: And the bike runs again. Thank you to all for your help.

[ekabil]

Hey guys, sorry to dredge up this old thread but it is a good one and I figured its better than starting a new one about the same thing.

My bike would not start (82 gs1100gl), but I got a click from the solenoid. No voltage drain on battery when trying the start, and no noise when the solenoid was shorted across the poles, so I figure its got to be the starter. Sure enough I take it out and put it on the sidewalk, put my foot on it securely, hook it up to my motorcycle battery (fully charged gel) and brace myself....and I get a pretty weak spin. From what I understand, it should want to jump off the ground what with the high torque, but that didn't happen at all. So I took it apart and look at the inside.

First impressions are a lot of black soot and debris in there. I just turned it upside down and shook it a bit. Then I looked at the brush plate, and pushed on the brushes ... all but one (its a mitsuba 4 brush) of them literally fragmented and disintegrated in my hand. The one that was intact was split in half transversely, making a little metal brush sandwich. So I am safe in assuming that this is the reason I was having so much trouble starting, right?

I did order new brushes, o rings, and brush plate from starter stocker.com What is the best way to connect the wire from the brushes to the existing wires? They seem thick...could I just solder them?

On to the good part. What is the best way to get all the soot out and clean everything? I saw earlier emery cloth, electrical contact cleaner were recommended. I think I will use a plastic or brass wire brush to clean up the body and magnet area, and then use contact cleaner + brass brush + emory cloth (360-400 grit?) for the commutator and other electrical contact areas. On reassembly, is there is anything in particular I should watch out for? Important here are things that I should NOT do, as this is the first time I have looked at the inside of any starter motor, and I don't want to make some crucial mistake and ruin the motor. Or have it spin backwards and kill the engine or something.

I have read not to use grease, and also in some places to use grease. Should I use grease or not; and if so, what kind and where should I put it?

Thanks guys. I am at work so if you ask me any questions I will be able to check here periodically.

[lordcannon88]

I don't know if it's the same on an 1100, but I recently replaced my starter, and all I removed was the starter cover and gasket. If you're patient and familiar with the top of the engine block of your bike, it's not hard to remove the starter without removing anything else.

Looking at how to remove the starter, I found one of two options - remove the cam chain tensioner (which Clymer recommends) or just buy a universal joint adapter for the ratchet. I'll try the second one first and use a rubber mallet and piece of wood to push the starter out of it's slot (according to what I found on here).

However, I'm unsure on one portion of testing the starter itself. In the video I found of Steve testing one, it shows he's using a battery with jumper cables. Can I also use my battery charger/maintainer to do the same thing or is that going to knock me for a loop?

Also, do I have to hold the starter in a vice/by hand or can I just set it on the ground? I'd rather not have it walk out of my hands if I'm not holding it properly but don't have a vise set up yet here.

[Steve]

If you're patient and familiar with the top of the engine block of your bike, it's not hard to remove the starter without removing anything else.

Lordcannon, if you look closely at the timestamps for the various postings, you will see that this thread started LAST YEAR in June, and cowboyup posted a resolution LAST YEAR in July.

Ekabil dragged it up this morning, rather than start a new post.

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[salty_monk]

anything else obvious to anyone?

A new cameraman?

Good luck with the rebuild