Starter not cranking

[G. Bruns]

A bit of help from those electrically inclined here would be greatly appreciated!

I've got my bike mostly back together and am to the point where I'm trying to get the starter to crank the engine. The bike hasn't ran since I got it 5 years ago, and it barely ran then.

The starter cranks when the solenoid, which is new, is jumped using a screw driver. I don't believe the the starter disconnect switch plays into the problem as the same voltage is measured at the y/g switch (start button) in the right hand switch and solenoid when the clutch is pulled as when the switch is bypassed.

I installed a new ignition switch which is detailed in the thread below. Not sure if it's relevant information or not.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=188714

The bike has a 4 month old battery in it which is fully charged. I'm not ruling out the possibility that it is bad.

I took some multimeter readings which I hope someone can help me interpret.

-13.00 volts at the battery fully charged.

-This drops to 12.35 in 15 seconds when the key is switched on. Headlight on, gauge lights come on except the oil light. This is on an Acewell unit I installed. The oil light only comes on when I remove the chassis grounds.

-At the 4th fuse down, it measures 12.18 volts.

-At the 3rd fuse down, it measures 11.28 volts. Connections between the 3rd and 4th fuse are the Orange wire connector immediately after the fuse box, positive R/R connection, and ignition switch. All of which have been cleaned with contact cleaner and scrubbed if I could reach 'em. Is this big of a drop normal???

-At the Run switch, Start Button and Solenoid, voltage is 11.02. The right hand switch is new and has no corrosion. I think I can account for most of the drop from 11.28 to 11.02 due to the connection at the wiring harness for the RH switch which needs to be soldered.

There are two harness grounds connected to the negative side of the battery. There are two chassis grounds (which are clean) coming from the negative side of the battery to the frame. The R/R ground is also attached to the negative side of the battery.

The starter has been gone through and deemed good by a small motor shop. The stator is new and passes the non-running tests. The R/R is not new but checks out testing the positive and negative leads against the other legs with the diode test as described in this thread.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=191637&highlight=duaneage+R%2FR

Obviously, I haven't performed any of the tests that require the engine to run.

Any idea where I might be coming up short? What should my next step be?

Thanks!

[5150/gs]

Checking the starter button wires on the handlebar control,feel the wires for any weak spots/breaks in the wires.a recent thread someone else found a broken wire they repaired and were then able to start using starter button.
A selinoid is a big relay in a sense.I would be tracing the starter button wires.Seein as it turns when jumped oin the selinoid.

[cowboyup3371]

Have you had the battery load tested at Autozone or OReillys? Do that first so you know for a fact your battery is good. I know you will lose some but I think you are losing too much on your connections. I would also agree that you should clean up and verify your wiring from the RH switch and make sure everything coming back from there are okay.

Obvious question here though - kill switch isn't engaged is it? This caught me today while testing after I installed my rebuilt starter.

[G. Bruns]

Nope, the kill switch isn't engaged. The wires to and from the RH switch are ok, but thanks for the suggestion. I'll take my battery to Autozone now. Good idea!

[G. Bruns]

I live really close to Autozone. The battery is putting out 321 CCA. They couldn't find the exact model to test it, but said it appeared to be good. When I jump the solenoid, it cranks very strong.

[Redman]

Bruno,

The fact that you measure differernt voltages at various places is a bit of a concern, but is not why the solenoid is not operating. You measured enough voltage at the solenouid to operate the solenoid.

You described a couple of wiring harness frame grounds, but yhou did not mention one to the battery box / solenoid. The battery box is not well connected to the frame, it needs a ground wire (black/white from wiring harnerss). The ground wire is usally connected to the battery box right wehere the solenoid bolts to the battery box. Notice that the solenoid itself doesn not have a ground wire. It gets its negitive connection from its case mounting to the battery box, but if the battery box is not grrounded, well, the solenoid isnt grounded either.

Look for that ground wire to the battery box at the solonod bolt. Or just add your own "ground wire" from battery box (solenoid mounting bolt) to battery negitive.

The R/R is also mounted to the battery box and also relays on this ground wire.

I am quessing that when you measured the 11 point whatever volts at the start button and at the solenoid thata you had the meter negitive on framge ground or battery negitive. Also try it again with the meter negitive on the solenoid mounting bolt, so you are measuring the same thing that the solenoid is expereincing. SHould measure same thing with meter- on batt- as with the meter- on the solenoid case/batterybox because the batterybox should be grounded the same as the frame. If not, then batterybox is not grounded.

>>>
Later note

Another way to check the batery box ground:
Do like you did before when measure 11 point whatever at solenoid connection, meter+ on solenoid/start button connetion, meter- on batt-. Then move meter+ to the solenoid case, if measure the same as the solenoid connection: then you know the solenoid/battery box is not grounded.

.

[G. Bruns]

Thank you Redman.

It worked! (with mixed results)

Grounding the battery box through the negative terminal caused the 15 amp main fuse to blow when I hit the start button. The PO had a heavier duty fuse in that spot...I know because I have the old fuse block (although I couldn't read exactly what size it was). I put it in just for the purpose of testing the ground and it cranked over!

I didn't get a chance to take the readings you mentioned off the ground point on the battery box or the solenoid housing as the bike started to crank and I didn't think I should let it go on with an incorrect fuse in there.

Now, do you or anyone have any ideas how to stop the fuse from blowing? Also, I believe the oil light is supposed to be on when the ignition switch is turned on before the bike starts. Any advice on troubleshooting that too?

Thank you for your help!

[cowboyup3371]

The oil light will be on as there's no oil pressure flowing across the switch yet so that's normal.

As far as that fuse blowing, I'd start looking over your harness and finding a bare spot in the wires that shouldn't be.

[G. Bruns]

The oil light is not on though it should be. It only comes on if I remove the chassis ground. I found that out accidentally.

[Redman]

Thank you Redman.

It worked! (with mixed results)

Grounding the battery box through the negative terminal caused the 15 amp main fuse to blow when I hit the start button. The PO had a heavier duty fuse in that spot...I know because I have the old fuse block (although I couldn't read exactly what size it was). I put it in just for the purpose of testing the ground and it cranked over!

I didn't get a chance to take the readings you mentioned off the ground point on the battery box or the solenoid housing as the bike started to crank and I didn't think I should let it go on with an incorrect fuse in there.

Now, do you or anyone have any ideas how to stop the fuse from blowing? Also, I believe the oil light is supposed to be on when the ignition switch is turned on before the bike starts. Any advice on troubleshooting that too?

Thank you for your help!

Okay, making some progress.

So, lets see if I understand.
Used to be that when hit starter button, nothing happened. GOt voltage to the solenoid, but nothing happened (which is what will happen if solenoid has no ground because battery box not grounded). You added a ground to battery box, and now the solenoid operates and trys to crank over engine to start .. but blow a fuse.

Which fuse? Ignition fuse? (that is the fuse that powers the starter button/solenoid circuit).
And this fuse does not blow untill you hit the starter button? Will hold for long time untill hit the starter button? Ignition fuse should be a 10.


Main fuse is a 15. Is not that fuse that blows is it? If it is try disconnecting the R/R for a while and see if that changes things. (may have to charge battery yourself on occassion).

On my 82 GS1100GK (and I think others the same)
Top is Headlight (10) (Org/red)
2nd is Signal (10) (Org/Grn) brake & Instrument lights & horn
3rd is Ignition (10) (Org/wht)starter button/solenoid and coils and ignition module
4th is Main (15) (red) to R/R and to ignition swtich then back (org) to power the above 3 fuses.
5th Aux (10) to the terminals there on lower part of the fuse block.

Tell us more what you find.

Oh, have we seen photo of this bike? Need to know if it is the marron or the black one.
(har har joking)
(but we do like pictures)

>>later note:
- the reading different voltages at different points along the circuit; that is a differetn problem.
- the oil light not comming on; that is a different problem.
I would recommend posting each problem in a seperate posting, else it gets hard to follow the responces, and folks are less likley to try to figure it out and then dont bother to comment.

[G. Bruns]

It's the 15 Amp Main that blew. After thinking it through, I'm not exactly sure when it blew, if it was when I pushed the start button or if something else might have triggered it. I'll pick up some more fuses tonight and try to reproduce it and answer your questions.

The R/R is off the bike right now as I was testing it.

Here is a link to my rebuild thread. http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=187220

I've just got the bodywork left to finish before I'm done (hopefully).

Thanks again for your help. It is greatly appreciated.

[G. Bruns]

Got it cranking and the fuse holds!

Thanks for helping, Redman!

[5150/gs]

If one was to run a lead from batter positive would it actuate the selinoid?If it did i would suspect something faulty from the starter button to actuate said selinoid.I am by far no good with electrical, my issues so far have been solved just from reading stator papers,testing and such.luckily the wire harness is the only thing the PO's didn't hack up.

[G. Bruns]

5150/gs...If you check your positive battery terminal, it already connects directly to the solenoid, if you jump from that post to the other post on the solenoid using a screwdriver (being careful not to shock yourself), it will make the engine crank. In this case, the bike was missing a ground which caused the starter not to work when the starter button was pushed.

Be glad your wiring harness is in tact! Mine was obviously missing an important part and I've got a few more glitches to figure out too.

[5150/gs]

Ahh ,gotcha, i love learning,even if it is electrical hehe,I knew the trick jumping them from working o Fords, but never knew it was a contact to ground for the acuator lead.