850 GL death at low idle

[uladk]

Hello everyone!

I've read many posts and the stator papers here, but I still feel I need some specific questions answering.

Here is my scenario:

Bought the bike and found out it had after market turn signals installed with excessive wiring. I cut away some of the wiring and reinstalled. Everything worked after a struggle. With this turn signals, there are red, black and black/white wires. What is the extra wire for?

The bike was always hard to start. The clutch always has to be pulled in to start it. Sometimes hitting the button did nothing, I'd release the clutch and pull in again, and that usually got it working. Any ideas on this randomness? I would have to choke, even in 90'F for awhile for the bike to warm up. Sometimes it would idle, then slowly drop so low it would cut out.

My bike had developed some difficulties when riding around the city. I'd pull the clutch in, stop and sometimes it would just cut out after coming to a stop. I would have to rev the engine to maintain idle speeds. I went for a long ride, at high speed. The bike wouldn't start back up at first when I tried to leave for home. There was enough juice left to get me moving, but it stalled again at a traffic light. At that point, I couldn't get her started and had to jump the bike so I could get home. Charged the battery up to full, had it tested, and the results were good (12.5V). So I took it out again for a short 3 - 4 mile city ride to a mates house. Came to start the bike and the battery was dead.

Reading this forum, I replaced the regulator with one from rmstator. Wired everything back up but all the previous symptoms were still there: having to rev the bike to prevent stalling after being warmed up, etc. During this test, I disconnected turn signals and headlight (I was suspecting some kind of short).

I feel like there's a few things going on with the electrics and I was hoping someone could point me in a direction, without having to replace more than nessesary.

Thanks!

[tom203]

You likely have dirty carbs, along with other issues- these problems are common, did you see this link?

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/GSR_Greeting.html

[uladk]

Thanks for the response. I've been going through the list, thank you.

I checked the charging system with a brand new battery:

I get 12.3V from the battery. At 2,500 RPM, I'm over 13.5V, and at 5,000 RPM and over I'm gettinig 14V (with new R/R installed). According to the stator papers fault chart (http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfault.htm) my charging system has no issues, and I should be looking else where for problems. Is that correct?

During the above test, after I let the throttle go, the RPM dropped from over 5,000 and the bike stalled out at about idle. So, clogged carb is probably at fault still?

Thanks.

[tom203]

Your charging system seems good-hooray!
At low rpms, like idle, the bike needs fuel mixture from its low speed jets- these have very small holes that clog up easily. Have you tried moving the idle stop screw to see if it has any effect? Your bike should idle smoothly at 1000 rpm if all is well.

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. uladk,

Your charging system is not bad but it is under-performing just a little. You will want to clean all the electrical connections and grounds. Connect the ground wire from the regulator/rectifier unit directly to the negative terminal of the battery.

A lot of GS bikes have the clutch safety switch. I have to pull in my clutch in order for the start button to work. Your clutch switch sounds like it could be dirty. Clean it up or bypass it. The connections are in the headlight bucket. Just follow the wire and take the switch out of the loop.

Hard starting can be caused by valve clearances that are too tight. There is a valve adjustment guide on my little website.

Your new blinkers bulbs may be dual-filament. This means you have an extra wire to power the "running lights". There is a spare 12v wire (usually brown) in the headlight bucket. This can be used to power running lights in the front blinkers.

A 30 year old motorcycle will need a lot of maintenance (clean carbs, valve adjustment, etc). If you haven't done all the maintenance properly the bike will have several problems, not running right, hard starting, stalling, etc. If you do not know the complete history of the bike then it is up to you to do all of the necessary maintenance in order to have a safe and reliable motorcycle. In your "mega-welcome" you will find a couple of maintenance lists. Every item on these lists must be properly addressed in order to make you and your bike happy. Here we go...

Let me dump a TON of information on you and share some GS lovin'.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. This is what NOT to do: Top 10 Newbie Mistakes. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...



Please Click Here For Your Mega-Welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[spyug]

Welcome. Cliff and the guys have covered off most of the important stuff. Adjusting valves, cleaning carbs and installing fresh o-rings and cleaning contacts are the 3 most important issues for easy starting and running.

As far as electrical, while the battery may show a good charged voltage, that voltage may not all be getting to the important part of the ignition , the coils. If the coils don't receive good voltage they will under perform and your spark will be weaker than it should be resulting in hard starting and weak running.

I can speak to this with authority as I'm having running issues too and in checking my connectors from the fuse block on to the coils I found that I had lost 2 volts at the kill switch and while mybattery had 12.5 volts on tap the coils only received 10.5. I cleaned all the contacts I could but the kill switch is made in such away it is almost impossible to sort and I couldn't.

There is fix for this known as the "coil relay mod" and it is detailed in a tutorial on Cliff's fantastic site. It is not difficult and it will improve the situation dramatically. I did mine this afternoon and along with changing some dirty connectors at the coils I picked up almost all my missing voltage. The battery showed 12.6 volts resting and at the coils it was 12.2 volts.Good enough for government work as they say.

You will have to look at these things to get a good running dependable bike. Read over the tutorials and tackle them one at a time, maybe carbs first, followed by coils followed by valves. Be aware, however, that you issues are likely a combination of these known problems and you will likely have to do them all to get the good running you are after.

Good luck with it and keep us informed of how you are doing. Also post some pics of your ride too.

Cheers,
Spyug

[uladk]

Thanks everyone for your help. I've only just got done fixing her, so here's the story...

I replaced the R/R as I said, and everything was fine for a couple days, but then the problem returned. Upon closer inspection, the bullet connectors from the stator to the R/R were wet through. I'm not talking damp, but full on, submerged since the transparent protectant material had filled with water. Not sure how I missed that or if the rain got inside somehow, but the connecters had seen better days.

Cutting the wires back and testing the stator, all seemed well, but I bought a new one anyway to be sure, and will sell the other. When replacing the stator, a gear fell out when I removed the cover. Turns out that the intermediate starter gear between the starter and starter clutch was missing the shaft that holds it in place. Since adding that part back in, it seems to start much better! I imagine it wasn't catching on the starter's teeth easily.

A few gaskets, and quarts of oil later, I'm back riding again. Idling is normal again after replacing the stator and R/R. I keep testing the battery after each ride and voltage is up to 12.6 after switching off.

Pic for you guys! Cheers for all your help.

[tom203]

Uladk said....
"Turns out that the intermediate starter gear between the starter and starter clutch was missing the shaft that holds it in place. Since adding that part back in, it seems to start much better! I imagine it wasn't catching on the starter's teeth easily"

Well yeah, no intermediate gear, no start at all!
Nice looking bike, do you live on a slope?

[koolaid_kid]

Nice looking bike, do you live on a slope?

Shhh, it's not polite to stare. One leg is shorter than the other.

[uladk]

Everytime I try walking, I fall over.

Intermediate gear was in there, just not fixed with the shaft. I am surprised it started at all to be honest.

Here's a better slope: