Battery SLOWLY Dying

[Legionnaire]

Actually, the battery seldom has to do anything more than start the bike, but that's beside the point right now.

Going to go out on a limb here, ... which way do you turn the igntion key when you turn the bike off?
Do you ever use the PARK position at the far right?

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I NEVER EVER do that because it leaves the lights on! I ain't that dumb!

But I went and load tested the battery and it PASSED!

Well it worked most of the time today, but the one time it didn't, I bet (LET'S PRETEND) if I would have just put my volt meter to the battery at that moment I could have just WATCHED the volts literally drop till it was at like 2v or something crazy. Just with the key in, no lights, when it's turned off with the key in it, it can literally suck it dry. Then I turn the bike off and most of the time it will go all the way back up to 12v or near it one volt at a time.

And most of the time when I turn the key and check to see what happens it will go down a BIT but stablize after it drops .10v or something. Should the volts go down at all if I just turn the key with the lights off?

Sounds like a grounding problem still right?

[BigD_83]

I NEVER EVER do that because it leaves the lights on! I ain't that dumb!

But I went and load tested the battery and it PASSED!

Well it worked most of the time today, but the one time it didn't, I bet (LET'S PRETEND) if I would have just put my volt meter to the battery at that moment I could have just WATCHED the volts literally drop till it was at like 2v or something crazy. Just with the key in, no lights, when it's turned off with the key in it, it can literally suck it dry. Then I turn the bike off and most of the time it will go all the way back up to 12v or near it one volt at a time.

And most of the time when I turn the key and check to see what happens it will go down a BIT but stablize after it drops .10v or something. Should the volts go down at all if I just turn the key with the lights off?

Sounds like a grounding problem still right?

or a short...but I believe you've been down that road before.

[Steve]

I NEVER EVER do that because it leaves the lights on! I ain't that dumb!

Well, I just had to ask.

We got my wife's 850 becaue the previous owner (who happened to be female) had problems keeping the battery charged from one weekend to the next. She took the bike back to the shop that sold it to her, they replaced stator, R/R and battery, it still didn't last until the next weekend. She parked the bike beside the garage and got a NEW bike. Her landlord wanted the 850 out of there, so she asked me if I would get it running so she could sell it. I agreed and brought it home. I left a battery connected to it for three full weeks and only lost 0.1 volt, so I think that she might have been parking it with the key in PARK. Never did ask her to verify, did not want her to feel dumb about it.

She has since gotten married to a guy who is in our GoldWing chapter, so we still see her occasionally and merely point out that the bike is still going strong.


By the way, when you turn the bike off, there will be what is called a "surface charge" on the battery. It may show well over 13 volts, maybe as much as 13.4 or so. Over the course of half an hour or so, it will slowly dissipate. You can speed the process with a load, like turning the key ON, but don't start the bike. Leave the key ON for 15-20 seconds, then turn it OFF. What you see then will be a reasonably accurate voltage.

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[Legionnaire]

or a short...but I believe you've been down that road before.

Yeah I mean it could still very well be a short, but it's weird cause it runs great sometimes and other times I park it and the battery is drained...

Fuel is also coming out of one of my air pods, and my exhaust backfires with deceleration... but other than that it runs like a champ!! What are the odds of my gas getting into my crankcase and mixing with my oil?

I think I am gonna buy a powerpak thing that I can jump my battery with for now, so I can get to work if anything bad happens

[Legionnaire]

There are a bunch of wires that come off the igniter and all go into the wiring harness, but there is a black/white wire that is just hanging off. Should I ground this wire to my one bolt, or should I ground it to the bolts that hold the ignitor down, or does it not really matter?

[Steve]

I think I am gonna buy a powerpak thing that I can jump my battery with for now, so I can get to work if anything bad happens

Be VERY careful with those things. There was a recent thread that said that after using one, the charging system was "toast". Some of those "jump packs" use higher voltage to minimize the amps they have to push. That higher voltage will kill your R/R in just a few seconds. Not all of the jump packs do that, and the ones that do, don't brag about it, so it's really hard to tell which ones do.

There are a bunch of wires that come off the igniter and all go into the wiring harness, but there is a black/white wire that is just hanging off. Should I ground this wire to my one bolt, or should I ground it to the bolts that hold the ignitor down, or does it not really matter?

Well, a good determining factor would be the answer to "what is at the other end of that wire?"

A black/white wire is a ground wire on a GS, that we know for sure. If that wire disappears into the harness, it is supposed to be connected to some device, to provide a ground path for it. However, if that wire is connected to a device and is just hanging around, it needs to be connected to a good ground.

The fact that your bike is running says that the ignitor is grounded, otherwise you could not get the engine to start. However, that wire might be intended to ground the battery box to which the R/R is mounted, so please check that out.

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[Legionnaire]

Be VERY careful with those things. There was a recent thread that said that after using one, the charging system was "toast". Some of those "jump packs" use higher voltage to minimize the amps they have to push. That higher voltage will kill your R/R in just a few seconds. Not all of the jump packs do that, and the ones that do, don't brag about it, so it's really hard to tell which ones do.



Well, a good determining factor would be the answer to "what is at the other end of that wire?"

A black/white wire is a ground wire on a GS, that we know for sure. If that wire disappears into the harness, it is supposed to be connected to some device, to provide a ground path for it. However, if that wire is connected to a device and is just hanging around, it needs to be connected to a good ground.

The fact that your bike is running says that the ignitor is grounded, otherwise you could not get the engine to start. However, that wire might be intended to ground the battery box to which the R/R is mounted, so please check that out.

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Oh wow I will do some research, but I have used this same brand a couple times before without problems. Sounds like it only took one time for them... and mine survived one so...

Also "that wire" is coming off the ignitor and bolting back onto itself. I know where the wire comes from I was just wondering if I should ground it to itself or the main bolt, but like you said if it turns on then it is grounded.

[Steve]

Also "that wire" is coming off the ignitor and bolting back onto itself. I know where the wire comes from I was just wondering if I should ground it to itself or the main bolt, ...

Think about it for a moment (more, if necessary), then answer this question:
What good is it if it is grounded to itself?

If one end is bolted to the ignitor, the other end should be connected to a grounded point. In your case, it can be your "main bolt".
Electrically, it could also go to the chassis or the battery negative terminal, but you are using your "main bolt" as your primary ground point.

The only reason I can think of to loop a ground wire back to itself is to form a handle so you can carry the item, but that is not necessary here.

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[mike10]

How

How is the battery charging its self back up after being too dead to crank the engine. Could the popping on deceleration be exhaust leak ?

[Legionnaire]

Think about it for a moment (more, if necessary), then answer this question:
What good is it if it is grounded to itself?

If one end is bolted to the ignitor, the other end should be connected to a grounded point. In your case, it can be your "main bolt".
Electrically, it could also go to the chassis or the battery negative terminal, but you are using your "main bolt" as your primary ground point.

The only reason I can think of to loop a ground wire back to itself is to form a handle so you can carry the item, but that is not necessary here.

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That is true sir, I am just not sure what the ignitor ACTUALLY does and if it could be the reason why, but it’s always worth a shot to try it out!

I will add it to my main bolt and see what happens, I assumed that if the bike was turned ON it would keep the battery at 12, but it was barely keeping it at 10.5v when I parked it and left it idling.

How is the battery charging its self back up after being too dead to crank the engine. Could the popping on deceleration be exhaust leak ?

@Mike: Even turned on and idling it was fighting to stay at 10.5v then the SECOND I turned it off it started to climb back up to 12v. That’s what I mean when it charges itself backup, because it can’t crank the engine sometimes cause it’s too low, and when a battery is dead that usually means it’s DEAD, in my case it’s “dead” the volts drop, but go back up eventually.

I did some research about the popping and that seems like a common one, I don't seem to have any holes in the pipe, but I have a feeling I bolted the headers on badly, that could definitely be it, eh? Now it backfires when it is IDLING too... it didn't do that yesterday

I seriously can't thank this forum enough...

[Steve]

That is true sir, I am just not sure what the ignitor ACTUALLY does and if it could be the reason why, but it’s always worth a shot to try it out! ...

"Ignitor" is actually a bit of a mis-nomer here. It does not actually "ignite" anything. It's just a box of transistors that are an electronic version of mechanical points, to interrupt the current flow through the coils. When the points open (in this case, it's transistors that open), current stops flowing through the coils and the resulting collapse of the magnetic field is what generates the spark at the plugs.

Since the ignitor is an electronic device, it must have power (via an orange/white wire) and a ground (the black/white wire) some trigger inputs (usually blue and green wires) and the wires from the coils (usually black and white). Without that ground wire (or another one that happens to be connected to it), it will not work. However, you seem to have an engine that runs, so it is apparently getting a ground from somewhere.

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[Legionnaire]

"Ignitor" is actually a bit of a mis-nomer here. It does not actually "ignite" anything. It's just a box of transistors that are an electronic version of mechanical points, to interrupt the current flow through the coils. When the points open (in this case, it's transistors that open), current stops flowing through the coils and the resulting collapse of the magnetic field is what generates the spark at the plugs.

Since the ignitor is an electronic device, it must have power (via an orange/white wire) and a ground (the black/white wire) some trigger inputs (usually blue and green wires) and the wires from the coils (usually black and white). Without that ground wire (or another one that happens to be connected to it), it will not work. However, you seem to have an engine that runs, so it is apparently getting a ground from somewhere.

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I suppose that is all good news! But here is a curve ball! I was reading about one of my OTHER problems which is the bike feels like it isn’t getting power when you crank the throttle down, even at 1/4 throttle it just feels like it goes NOWHERE. Someone mentioned that this is a carb issue, yeah that makes sense, but someone else said it could be the coils are going bad? Or one of them? So this sparked a memory...

I remember having my tank off and JUST my electrical on one, the bike was off just the lights and stuff were turned on and my right coil was getting SUPER hot, and my left one I couldn’t feel any warmth, does this sound like an issue?

[BigD_83]

Yes...you are getting current in the coil when you shouldn't. I actually had that happen one night when I forgot to turn the key off, and melted the wax (?) in the coil...not a pretty sight. The performance of that coil was thus in question until I replaced them with the Dyna Green (3.0 Ohm) coils.

I forget which bike we are talking about here (hint hint...signature), but are you still running points?

[Legionnaire]

Yes...you are getting current in the coil when you shouldn't. I actually had that happen one night when I forgot to turn the key off, and melted the wax (?) in the coil...not a pretty sight. The performance of that coil was thus in question until I replaced them with the Dyna Green (3.0 Ohm) coils.

I forget which bike we are talking about here (hint hint...signature), but are you still running points?

SHEESH! That is a gnarly story, I don’t think I did anything like that, but the bike is old so who knows...

My bike is a 1981 GS450, how would I go about testing these to see what is wrong?

[BigD_83]

I don't think you have anything to panic about.

If you haven't done so, you need to check that you are getting full voltage at the coil when it is cranking.

You should also check the primary and secondary resistance of your coils to make sure you are getting good spark.

A quick search for "Hot Coil" in titles only, any date came up with this bit of reading for you. This should shed a little light on the issue.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/search.php?searchid=2915598