driving at night and BOOM! no lights!

[Redman]

That's true. Doesn't it Y into the red wire somewhere under the tank?....
....

yes, and I have wanted to find that point where the R/R output ties into the main red wire in the harness (but that is another discussion).


.

[dfinnegan71]

Yes I can tell you, the ignition and main are not tied together . My 1980 Kawi blew a main this summer because of a bad ground and the bike stalled out. I made it home running on no lights. just for clarification, I only had an hour to look at it last night and haven't found any Bare wires yet, but I can only assume that is the issue. Thanks for all your input.

[koolaid_kid]

I suspect it will be difficult to find, and may not actually be a physically bare wire. I base this assumption on the fact that a large bump popped another fuse. That tells me that it made momentary contact only, then went back to no contact.
I suggest using Dave's approach in post #13. Get a couple of boxes of fuses and replace the ones that blew. Turn the key on. If one or more blows, you have a dead short and can trace that down relatively easy.
If one does not blow, then follow the wiring harness down its path, rapping on the harness at periodic points until one blows, then you have localized the position.
I realize it will be a PITA, but you have an unusual situation on your hands.
Best of luck.

[MisterCinders]

If you cannot shake out the short, stick a bunch of those fuses in your toolkit/pocket, so you can swap them in should you blow one on the road.

[Redman]

Yes I can tell you, the ignition and main are not tied together . .........

Ah ... we were saying the charging is tied into the Main.
More specifically, We were saying that the R/R output (charging system) is tied into the wire that goes from the Main fuse to the key swtich (sometimes called ignition swith, but also switches other power besides that what goes to ignition).

Main fuse power (red wire from main fuse, not red wire from battery to main fuse) goes to key switch and the R/R output ties (spliced) into that red wire along the way to the key switch.
Key switch turns on and puts power on Orange wire. Orange wire comes back to the fuse block and powers the Head fuse and the Ignition fuse and the Signal fuse.

......... My 1980 Kawi blew a main this summer because of a bad ground and the bike stalled out. I made it home running on no lights. ............

- I dont know how Kawi arrange the fusing as it relates to the charging system. Could be differetn than Zuki.
- IF blew main and bike stalled, I assume you replaced fuse before could get bike started again. With no main fuse, I doubt could push start it (or kick start) enough to get charging system to operate the ignition. Do not really know.
- I cant think of how a bad ground would blow a fuse. By bad ground I mean a wire that should be grounded was not grounded, to me, that is a bad ground, and would mean that a lot less current is flowing. It takes too much current to blow a fuse. Unless by "bad goround" you mean a wire that was suppose to have power on and not be grounded was somehow grounded, now that would definatly blow a fuse (that would be called a short circuit to ground, and what we are suggesting you need to look for with your present proiblem). But anyway, let not get too distracted with this.



ANyway, aside from all the above discussion. Back to looking for possible cause of blowing fuses.

......... I only had an hour to look at it last night and haven't found any Bare wires yet, ........

Since you say blowing Headlight fuse and also Signal fuse (and Main), that leads us to suspect multiple wires are damaged somewhere.

When looking for where wiring harness may have some bare power wires, that could "short to ground", think of two possibilitys:
- where rubbing against some surface and would wear over some area along the wiring harness.
- were rubbing acrost some edge, sideways, and wear into the harness in only a narrow little slit. Harder to notice.
In eiter case it may be easier to find by moving around the harness and see if blows fuse(s) to at least narrow down what section of the wiring harness; inside headlight shell, up by frame neck, or by the main frame under the tank, or back under seat by battery, or back near tail light ..... then look with eyeballs.

And, there is an other possible cause of multiple wires being damaged, other than from rubbing against something, . . . but lets not talk about that yet.
Tell us what you find.
But do tell us if you find a place or two where it looks like a wire has melted through the tape that covers the wiring harness, maybe the black/white wire.

Dave

[MisterCinders]

....except from the charging system.

The charging system red wire ties into the main red wire inbetween the main fuse and the ignition switch.

If do not have the main fuse, what you dont have is a battery connected to the red wire that goes to ignition swtich, you still have the charging system connected to the red wire that goes to ignition switch.

So if bike is running and charging system functional, could pull the main fuse and the charging system is still suppling power (do keep up the rpms) to the ignition switch (and then to Head fuse, Ignition fuse and Signal fuse).
I have not actaully tried this, just looking at schematics.

.

Actually I agree with your reading of the diagram - since the main fuse only isolates the battery, the bike should run off the charging system.

In my experience, however, when my bike had the original One Fuse To Rule Them All system, the One True Fuse sat in the same position as the main fuse we are talking about here. When that fuse blew (and it did a couple times) the bike would immediately die.

Why would that be?

[dfinnegan71]

Thanks Redman and Mistercylinders and you too Koolaid Kid. I will have some time on Friday to sort out some of this. It seems that the "replace and shake" method might be the best idea. I will look around maybe take a pic or two and report my findings. You guys have been super helpful. Oh and Redman, I was not very clear with my statement. When the Kawi blew a fuse, it stalled out. However, when the Zuki blew the fuses I still made it home....redundant by now I suppose. Got to say a big thanks to those Suzuki engineers!! I got it home and in one piece.

[koolaid_kid]

Actually I agree with your reading of the diagram - since the main fuse only isolates the battery, the bike should run off the charging system.

In my experience, however, when my bike had the original One Fuse To Rule Them All system, the One True Fuse sat in the same position as the main fuse we are talking about here. When that fuse blew (and it did a couple times) the bike would immediately die.

Why would that be?

Your system was different than this one. Due to the Suzuki design where the ignition switch has two sources of charging power, the MAIN fuse and the R/R line directly connected to the ignition switch (unfused) the power went back to the fuse block, where the ignition fuse was still good. Thus the ignition still operated and he made it home.
In your case, everything, ignition, lights, horn, etc. got its power through the single fuse. When the single fuse blew, you were done. Make sense?

[MisterCinders]

Your system was different than this one. Due to the Suzuki design where the ignition switch has two sources of charging power, the MAIN fuse and the R/R line directly connected to the ignition switch (unfused) the power went back to the fuse block, where the ignition fuse was still good. Thus the ignition still operated and he made it home.
In your case, everything, ignition, lights, horn, etc. got its power through the single fuse. When the single fuse blew, you were done. Make sense?

Except that my pre-fuse-box wiring did not put a fuse between the R/R line and the ignition switch. In fact contrary to the service manual diagram (in color here) the red line went from the battery (+) to the fuse and then forked to the R/R and IGN switch. The diagram actually puts the fuse in position to isolate the R/R and NOT the battery, but that's not what existed in the actual layout, thankfully.

So blowing that fuse cuts off the battery (+), but not the R/R. If you ran the wires per that diagram, the reverse would be true. A blown fuse would cut off the R/R but not the battery. Indeed, absent some diodes, I can't see how one fuse could protect both the battery (+) and the R/R red wire, unless the R/R were connected directly to the battery (+) unfused.

So I am still perplexed.

[dfinnegan71]

Well, I haven't had a chance to really give 'er a good goin over. Been crazy busy with work and mid-term exam's this week at school. Post some findings in the next day or two.