Question about the CDI GS450

[OZ2DA]

Hi guys, i'm new on this forum.
I just purchased an old gs450s from 83-84'ish.
On the way home, it just died. No spark on the plugs.
Question, as i read the wiring diagram, then when the key is turned, and the stop/run button is set to on, i should be able to messure voltage on the wireharness to the cdi and coils right ?

Best to all of you.

Former GS450s rider, and hopefully very soon to be riding 450s again

[pete]

Hi and welcome!

First, just a minor correction on terminology... the GS' don't have a CDI, they have transistorised ignition instead, commonly referred to here as an ignitor.

Anyway... you're right, ignition and kill switch on should give you +12v to both coils. If the bike has a clutch safety switch though you may need to ensure the clutch is held in while you do this testing.

Good luck and you have a good choice in bikes!

[OZ2DA]

Hi Pete

Thanks for correcting me on the mistake about the cdi.
Basically that was the term my mechanic used, when he tried explaining that it might be expensive if he had to make it go back on the street again, since he had to systematicly change the parts to see what was wrong. Starting to tell me the prices on original suzuki part from the Danish distributer.
So he startet by strip of the gastank, making sure that there came gas to the carbs, even though I've already had told them, that I've already checked that.
Then he pulled of the left side cover of the engine, don't know if that just was because he would have me to pay for extra oil and a new gasket, or if he actually had an idea by go there. Since it was ignition related which he told me since there was no sparks at all.
So I told him to stop, and just put it back together as it was with new bolts on the cover, and then deliver it at my house.
It took me like 10 minutes to go the wireharness through with electrical cleaner, and measure that there was no voltage to the transistorised ignition
So I guess that it was my luck that I got it back home before he started to pull stuff out and put new on it.

By the way, I don't think it has the clutch safety switch, since I could start the engine before in neutral without using the clutch, and also manage to be stupid enough to start it in first gear without grabbing the clutch, which ofcouse resultet in it turned on the engine, which died and the bike gracefully tilted on to the left side.

I'll have an other look at it tomorrow, while I'm waiting to get my new gaskets home. Ordered two, just in case I destroy one. Other wise I just have a spare. Always good to have.

Thanks for the comment on my choice of bike

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. OZ2DA,

If the ignitor has gone bad they are very expensive to replace. It would be cheaper to replace the system with a Dyna-S ignition. See the electrical troubleshooting tips on my little website. I'm sure there is other maintenance that needs to be done to your motorcycle. You'll find a maintenance list in your "mega-welcome". Please do not skip any steps or take any shortcuts.

If you are here you probably have a 30 year old motorcycle that needs about 20 years worth of maintenance. You'll find all kinds of helpful tips, procedures, manuals, diagrams, "how-to" guides, etc, in the links below. Let's get started.

Let me dump a TON of information on you and share some GS lovin'.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. This is what NOT to do: Top 10 Newbie Mistakes. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...



Please Click Here For Your Mega-Welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

More links to helpful threads in the forum:
Help! Your Bike Won't Start
DON'T DO THESE THINGS
Help! Your Bike Won't Run Well
Oh God! Pods!


Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[pete]

Aaah I see... that's why I work on my bike myself, I have heard lots of stories like that where mechanics just like to run the bills up.

So there's no voltage to the ignitor.

Is there voltage to the coils?

It could be as simple as something wrong with the kill switch or the main fuse and/or fuse holder being faulty.

Mine's a bit older (82) but I believe there is still just one main fuse under the left side cover that is a glass type fuse holder. These are prone to failure and it's a good idea to replace it with a modern blade type.

Also, as yours is a later model, it has electronic advance rather than mechanical advance, so a Dynatek DS3-3C kit like I have won't be such as easy replacement if your ignitor is faulty.

You should however be able to retrofit the ignition setup from the later GS500's I believe.

[wally]

Let me know the part nr if in fact you do need an igniter box.

There was a guy selling used ones for around ZAR400 each (about US$50) here in South Africa
Could be worthwhile just posting it up to you.

[OZ2DA]

Hi BassCliff, thanks for the welcome

Pete and Wally.
I just went out to the bike again today. Measured once more just to be sure. As something stikes me. I hadn't tried to measure voltage on the pins in the connector and used the frame as negative. When I did that, there was voltage to the orange wire to the igniter. And also to the coils.
Here is where I wonder because I dont see it clearly if there are going to be a pin in the connector that is negative. Or if it all just depends on the frame to carry the negative voltage to the battery.
I mean that if the ignitor isn't using the frame, then yes i might just have my problem there. Else it's somewhere else, that I'm going to figure out.

Wally, thanks for the offer I've already found something on ebay that might work.
You could perhaps tell me.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/190706347702?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2450wt_849

this is the one on the way home to me, just in case.

best regards
Dennis

[pete]

Hey Dennis, if the later models are the same, there is a separate ground wire for the ignitor that is not in the connector, and that should be going to a bolt or screw on the frame.

I'm not sure on that ignitor on eBay as they don't refer to any part numbers it replaces etc., but it doesn't look familar to any I've seen before...

[wally]

I am no electrical expert, but my brother in law has an 83 450 we are building up. He runs points, but we came across this, which according to the part nr is correct for the 83+ models.

Hope it helps...

[OZ2DA]

Good news and bad news.
Good news is that I'm able to read, and the transistorised ignition unit said that it was a Kokusan Denki BB1201 1G 12V, 32900-47020.

Now the bad news, since I manage to take measurements to day here they are.

Signalgenerator, 62 Ohms, measured on the wires. Measure between wires and the frame, one wire gave me a couple of Ohms, and else nothing.

Coils.
Left side.
Primary = 4,1 Ohms
Secundary = 12,7 KOhms

Right side.
Primary = 4,2 Ohms
Secundary = 12,5 KOhms
Atleast the measure pretty much about the same, but not as spec. the 25KOhms.

Made the transistorised ignition unit test, and ofcourse no sparks anywhere.

So it seems like an almost complete new ignition system, or am I completely wrong ?

Strange though that I got an 8 kilometer ride out of it after I purchased it. Died on the trip home from the guy who sold it to me.

[pete]

Very interesting Dennis, that's the same part number as the 80 - 82 ignitor modules... so do you have a mechanical advance unit under the signal generator cover? If so, you have the same options I did, and I can definitely recommend the Dynatek option which will also replace your coils. The thing I like about this is that there's no extra ignitor module to find a location for, it's all self contained under the signal generator cover.

With your coils though, you may find the wrong plug caps have been put on at some point or that they're just old and faulty which could explain the low secondary resistance measurement.

[OZ2DA]

Hi Pete

Even though I haven't taken pictures, and therefor it never happend I've ordered a Boyer Bransden Igniter kit from the UK, with all that i need.
I might suspect that there has been tampered with the bikes elektrical system. So from the US I've just ordered a Caltec R/R, because I would HATE to put on a new ignition kit, just to find it blowing up because of a r/r that has gone bad
So that's where it all goes right now.
In the mounting process I will post pictures if I remember to take any.

To me it seems that some one has mountet a topbox and sideboxes, and run the some wires the opposite way, that might have shortet.
An other thing that stikes me is that the fuse was changed with a piece of aluminium foil, which as an electrician I know that you under no circumstaces use anywhere.
But I'm looking so much foreward to get the bike running again.

Thanks for the guidence so far

[pete]

Good idea! These bikes are notorious for failed charging systems, so getting in with a new R/R is probably for the best.

I'd also forgotten about Boyer Bransden, so you'll have to let us know how that goes as I haven't seen one personally.

I also put a LED charging indicator on mine which saved me when the cheap R/R I had on originally failed.

I got it from eBay UK here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-MOTORC...item2eb53d149e

[OZ2DA]

Hi Pete

I just ordered the Led voltage indicator.

Btw, I measured the coils secondary both with and without the plug caps.
That way I should eliminate the posibility that it could be the plug caps.

Now I'm just waiting to get parts home, so I hopefully can get this bike, that was the first "real" bike I started riding 15 years ago. Can't wait.

[pete]

Excellent, keep us up to date!

My 450 is my second ever bike which I bought back in 1998... I'm still really enjoying it, especially after the rebuild and customisations