coil mod question

[posplayr]

Would it be safe to say that if the mod isn't working that I have interrupted the wrong o/w wire?

No?Why should it? There are probably many ways to screw it up. Double check all connections and then verify the operation of all signals at the relay. If that checks move to the coils. Make sure the ignitor is signalling (- side of coil goes high and low)

[SeanMora77]

Well, because everything else is pretty cut and dry. I've got a ground, a +from the battery, and two wires that go to the coils. I unwrapped the harness farther down and found the second orange and white wire. There are two of them. One of them has to be the right one, and one of them has to be the wrong one, no? If it doesn't matter which one than I have no idea what the problem is because I've gone over it a hundred times.

[posplayr]

Well, because everything else is pretty cut and dry. I've got a ground, a +from the battery, and two wires that go to the coils. I unwrapped the harness farther down and found the second orange and white wire. There are two of them. One of them has to be the right one, and one of them has to be the wrong one, no? If it doesn't matter which one than I have no idea what the problem is because I've gone over it a hundred times.

You check which one with a volt meter. Put the meter on the 20V scale and ground the black lead. Put the red lead on one of the Q/W wires. Now turn on the key and the Kill switch: Does it go to 12V? If not try the other one. When you see 12V with key on and kill switch on that is the one that goes to the solenoid(pin 86) on the relay.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.parts-express.com/resources/images/automotive-relay-relay2b.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.parts-express.com/resources/automotive-relays.cfm&h=318&w=500&sz=10&tbnid=72Vs2uyb6rmEnM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=124&zoom=1&usg=__e9miqvz7B4_9jMu73XnCUZVXCxM=&docid=n93828Qb-gpcFM&sa=X&ei=b-iSUeGJCNTB4APl-YHoBg&ved=0CG4Q9QEwAg

[SeanMora77]

Wow. OK, I tried what you said and the wire in question was the correct wire. I soldered a lead to it and plugged it into the relay and Im still getting nothing. The motor will turn over, but still no spark from the coils. Getting that sinking feeling here guys. I know this is childsplay to you guys but I've never done this before and Im afraid Im going to screw something up beyond repair. I don't know what to do next.

[posplayr]

Wow. OK, I tried what you said and the wire in question was the correct wire. I soldered a lead to it and plugged it into the relay and Im still getting nothing. The motor will turn over, but still no spark from the coils. Getting that sinking feeling here guys. I know this is childsplay to you guys but I've never done this before and Im afraid Im going to screw something up beyond repair. I don't know what to do next.

The only tests for the Relay are:

A.) The O/W input on pin 86 (with ground connected on pin 85) goes hot with the ignition on and Kill switch ON. (This is what you are saying works) Yes??

B.) So next you verified that pin 87 goes to 12V when the kill switch is on with the ignition switch on? If you have the Battery (+) wired to Pin 30 this will be so. Yes??

Watch Out because 87a will be the opposite of 87 so when Key off it will be hot.

If B.) Checks out then test the coils.

C.) 12V on the + side of both coils follows the same ignition and kill switch combination.

D.) The minus (-) side of the coil (the one connected to the ignitor) will alternate between +12V and about 0.5 volts
as you crank the engine over

[SeanMora77]

The only tests for the Relay are:

A.) The O/W input on pin 86 (with ground connected on pin 85) goes hot with the ignition on and Kill switch ON. (This is what you are saying works) Yes??

B.) So next you verified that pin 87 goes to 12V when the kill switch is on with the ignition switch on? If you have the Battery (+) wired to Pin 30 this will be so. Yes??

Watch Out because 87a will be the opposite of 87 so when Key off it will be hot.

If B.) Checks out then test the coils.

C.) 12V on the + side of both coils follows the same ignition and kill switch combination.

D.) The minus (-) side of the coil (the one connected to the ignitor) will alternate between +12V and about 0.5 volts
as you crank the engine over

A) yes, it goes hot, but only to 10.4. not 12.
B) no, it reads the same, 10.4v. Losing voltage somehow
C) not even close 0.4
D) Drained the battery too low to turn over, but did get a jumpy reading hitting the start button, definitely over 10v. Ill have to continue that test tomorrow. Also, if I have the lead to the ground on post 85 and the kill switch on 86 as soon as I hit the run switch the relay buzzes. If I switch the two it stops?? And I just checked the other orange and white wire in the harness and it goes hot with the ignition and run switch on. Both orange wires do the same thing. I can see evidence of the PO's handywork here and there. Im beginning to wonder if they may have altered something somewhere else down the harness, or maybe I have a bad/wrong relay? Its a 40 amp horn relay, 12V with the same posts schematic, same numbers. There is no 87a, just a 4 post relay. Also, just so you know, the battery was reading 12.74 when I did test A thru C.

[posplayr]

A) yes, it goes hot, but only to 10.4. not 12.
B) no, it reads the same, 10.4v. Losing voltage somehow
C) not even close 0.4
D) Drained the battery too low to turn over, but did get a jumpy reading hitting the start button, definitely over 10v. Ill have to continue that test tomorrow. Also, if I have the lead to the ground on post 85 and the kill switch on 86 as soon as I hit the run switch the relay buzzes. If I switch the two it stops?? And I just checked the other orange and white wire in the harness and it goes hot with the ignition and run switch on. Both orange wires do the same thing. I can see evidence of the PO's handywork here and there. Im beginning to wonder if they may have altered something somewhere else down the harness, or maybe I have a bad/wrong relay? Its a 40 amp horn relay, 12V with the same posts schematic, same numbers. There is no 87a, just a 4 post relay. Also, just so you know, the battery was reading 12.74 when I did test A thru C.

When you reverse the polarity on the relay and it changes makes me thing yes the relay is bad on there might be a fly-back diode installed.

See this link it talks about fly back diodes and you have to be careful how you wire it up. In the example of a Boshe type with fly back it uses 85 as ground but I don't know that that is a standard.

http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm

The diode can be inside or on the back of the connector

Relays with Internal Suppression Circuits:
There are some relays with internal suppression circuits which make the external diode unnecessary. The suppression circuit is generally a resistor or a diode parallel to the relay coil. The relays with a diode suppressor will have polarity sensitive coil connections. This means that the proper relay coil terminal (the positive terminal) must have the positive voltage applied to it. If the relay is connected improperly, the relay may be damaged or in some cases it simply won't operate.

The following two images show why you need to be careful when using relays with suppression diodes. In the diagram, you can see that the anode side of the diode is connected to terminal 85. This means that terminals 85 has to be used for the ground terminal for that particular relay (this is from the Tyco datasheet). The second image shows a wiring harness for a relay that came with a car alarm. The diode is connected with reverse polarity (compared to the Bosch internal diode). Generally (maybe always with the Bosch type relays) terminal 85 is considered ground when there are internal diodes. If you were to use this relay socket with a Bosch type relay that had an internal diode, there would be no way to make the combination work unless you cut the diode from the socket.

[SeanMora77]

You won't believe this...

Hi, I am seanmora77, and I do very stupid things. Hear me out. So, I go to the local auto parts store today and I'm standing in the aisle inspecting this relay I'm about to buy because at this point I'm fairly sure the original one is trash. I'm looking at the schematic that's printed on the back of it... I flip it over to the posts and under the ultra violet light I clearly see the raised numbers on the post plate and they do not at all correlate with the numbers so clearly printed on the back. That was it the whole time. I had my leads running to the entirely wrong posts because of the way I mounted the relay. I could only see the printed schematic on the back. They do not correlate. I feel stupid. At any rate, the bike has reached an entirely new level of beasthood. Starts so willingly and runs like a scalded dog. I hope someone learns from this someday. Sorry and thank you everyone.

[posplayr]

Hi, I am seanmora77, and I do very stupid things. Hear me out. So, I go to the local auto parts store today and I'm standing in the aisle inspecting this relay I'm about to buy because at this point I'm fairly sure the original one is trash. I'm looking at the schematic that's printed on the back of it... I flip it over to the posts and under the ultra violet light I clearly see the raised numbers on the post plate and they do not at all correlate with the numbers so clearly printed on the back. That was it the whole time. I had my leads running to the entirely wrong posts because of the way I mounted the relay. I could only see the printed schematic on the back. They do not correlate. I feel stupid. At any rate, the bike has reached an entirely new level of beasthood. Starts so willingly and runs like a scalded dog. I hope someone learns from this someday. Sorry and thank you everyone.

With electricity you have to be careful and check everything at least twice before apply power. Use a ohm meter to buss things out to make sure it is connected correct. Then Apply power

Glad it is done.

[SeanMora77]

Hey man, thanks for sticking with me on it. I appreciate your help, as well as everyone else who contributes here. If it wasn't for the GSR I would not have this bike in the condition it's in right now. Thanks again