Solid State Power Box

[salty_monk]

I'll take one. I assume this allows me to wire in heated grips (switched) & an accessory socket or 2 (unswitched) as well as all the other common mods?

Will join my new battery... The Scorpion AGM I had for about 4 yrs just crapped out. Looks like it just didn't want to move house with me!

[mrbill5491]

Looks like I'll need to put away some tax refund money next spring. Anything to get rid of the fuses.

[posplayr]

Here are the 3 mounting options;

1. Diagonal tabs
2. Symmetrical tabs
3. Tabless

I also added another option for tabless mounting where you have to drill through your mounting plate and screw in from the back.

[posplayr]

Do you have any more pics of the unit that is made to fit the newer style fuse box. I assume the aluminum is a large heat sink.

I would need to see pics of the backside as the aluminum base looks too large for my situation. I have the same fuse box but it has no tabs only clips that allow it to flush mount to the plastic battery box.

I have the Compufire R/R installed and this forced me to relocate my fuse box to the top side of my battery underneath the seat. It is now held in place with a zip-tie floating loosely in a not very ideal arrangement. I also have my Compufire secured with velcro and a zip-tie.

The heat sink is in the pic. I added an additional one at the end. Not sure of what your space limitations are but maybe I could fab a different base.

As i posted, you could allow it to float as it should only dissipate 5W.

Do you have any more pics of the unit that is made to fit the newer style fuse box. I assume the aluminum is a large heat sink.

I would need to see pics of the backside as the aluminum base looks too large for my situation. I have the same fuse box but it has no tabs only clips that allow it to flush mount to the plastic battery box.

I have the Compufire R/R installed and this forced me to relocate my fuse box to the top side of my battery underneath the seat. It is now held in place with a zip-tie floating loosely in a not very ideal arrangement. I also have my Compufire secured with velcro and a zip-tie.

[chef1366]

I'll take two.

[tkent02]

In .

[Sci85]

I'm in. Older 8V style mount. Graphics? I don't need no stinking graphics. I'll find some way to scrape up the money.

[posplayr]

OK Guys I have an update on the SSPB. The good news is that I finally got the PCB files shipped off today. It took me much longer than I had anticipated as I basically ended up adopting the ISO 7637-1:1990 standards for the design of the SSPB. As it turns out the automotive environment has some nasty energy pulses which can occur are various times; things like:

• Ignition spark
• Hooking up to a car with a charging alternator.
• Hooking up to a battery charger with a low battery.
• Disconnecting from a car with a charging alternator
• Removing a battery from a charging motor cycle.
• Connecting to a trickle charger when on.
  etc:

So what the ISO 7637-1:1990 standard does is to lay out pulsed energy characteristics for various conducted disturbances (this means coming on a wire v.s. radiated emissions) . It further lays out design and test guidelines for standardization of product performance specifications. There are really no requirements per se, but it provides some pretty specific guidelines for characterization of your design.

So what that basically means is that in the design of the SSPB I have had to try and deal with energy pulses that can exceed +/- 100 volts!!! The ability to do this depends on several factors the most important of which is how much impedance there is from the source of the conducted emissions as well as the duration. If you want to do any reading on this look up "Load Dump". It can be pretty horrendous. I ended up putting maximum (given space constraints) protection on all the inputs and outputs of the SSPB.

I was also fortunate enough to have a buddy that basically designed the military equivalent of the SSPB while working at Delco. He reviewed the design last week giving me the thumbs up.

My expectation is that for any source on a GS, the SSPB will survive unphased. It will even survive some pretty ugly stuff coming from a charging automobile; much more than most all of your other devices can stand. Properly installed, the SSPB should even protect the rest of your bikes electronics if you should happen to do something foolish like jump your bike from a running automobile.

Here are some pictures of my mock up comparing the SSPB to a stock GS1100ED fuse box. I don't have the primary wires coming into the side or show the two LED's but it does have the lower 10 pin correction and it fits on the bottom. There will be an low cost option to do dash mounted LED's if you wish; LED and harness only you need to find something to drill a hole into for mounting. Otherwise the LED's will be mounted in the box with the internal buzzer.

You can also see the 0.190" aluminum mounting plate. The unit will be fully epoxy sealed from below so you should be able to run this thing submerged.

The physical size of the Unit is:
1.8" Wide excluding the mounting tabs which are an extra 0.5" each side.
4.1" Long excluding the connector which protrudes about 0.6" from below.
1.5" Height including the aluminum mounting plate.









The heatsink is only 0.190" think and should be the same foot print as your OEM fuse box. The heatsink is the silver thing on the left. It should be mounted to the side plate in the stock location. With enough air flow it could be free floating. I expect power dissipation to only be 5W about 1/10 of a shunt R/R.



Hoping to get the bare PCBA's within two weeks and will be ordering more parts as the design has changed since my first orders. I will assemble and test the initial batch before epoxy filling the units that go out. Depending on how things go these could be ready in about 1 month from now.

So I'm looking for interest to buy the first prototypes as well as which style of base ( diagonal like the later fuse boxes or symmetrical like the older 8V models.).

I'm going to provide these first units with a simple box shown without graphics. If everything works out and there is enough interest in producing these in higher quantities I will have the box produced with professional graphics. I can swap out those new covers to any of the original buyers.

So for now I'll stick to my original $150 for these first prototypes

Offering a warranty is a bit of an unknown on something like this, but I'll offer a full repair or replace warranty for 3 years.

Let me know who is going to want one, I'm going to be getting the Alum. plates made pretty soon.

This is basically what you will see when you open the cover. Most of the parts and circuitry are on the back side buried in epoxy.

..... There is the issue or requiring an acceptable if not proper technique for crimping and soldering the connector /harness contacts. Go back to the decal example, you have to have a certain level of expertise and aptitude. If you cant crimp and solder a wire, you probably should not install this yourself. This is not necessarily bad as it also opens an opportunity for an network of "installers"........

I had a third paragraph in my post that I deleted, but I'll add it now.

I was asked by PM in another forum if I would help an owner install under frame door lights (puddle lights) in his F250 like I did on my truck. He proclaimed he had good electrical and mechanical knowledge, but I should have known better when he asked me what crimper he should buy.

After the discussion and links to my pictorials he could not get them to work. We went over and over about the connections, a simple setup with a relay, fused power and trigger off the interior lights. When he finally sent me pictures everything was laid out fine, shrink wrapped at the terminals and bundled well. Then I noticed the terminals looked a little larger then expected.

He needed larger terminals then I spec'd as he crimped right over the insulation, never exposing the hard wire to the make contact with the terminals. He went back and bought the larger terminals when he could not get the correctly sized ones I mentioned over the insulation. Amazing since my pictorial showed crimped and soldered wire, which he just ignored. Sometimes the horse just won't drink.

You'll be fine as long as your don't ask for wire and 6 ton crimpers like this. It's a solid connection though ....

[posplayr]

The design of the SSPB minimizes the exposure of unprotected power and thereby minimizes the risk of any inadvertent short circuit by a "club handed" motorcycle mechanic.

The plot below was taken from my breadboard SSPB. The entire GS1100ESD motorcycle electrical system was running off of the solid state device and I touched the SW ACC power wire (a 10 Amp capacity circuit) directly to the frame causing a short.

The plots are 5 amps per division for the yellow AMPS trace and 5 volts per vision for the turquoise VOLTS. Realize that the plot is repeating itself several times per second as the SSPB does a thermal reset. But on each re-attempt to distribute power in the presence of a short this is what happens.

The plot shows the voltage with the bike at a slow idle just under 12V. With a short applied the SSPB goes through repeated attempts to apply current to the shorted circuit. After the initial current surge from the short (to 17 amps), there is a current limit to about 12 amps that only last for 1/4 of a mill-sec (1/4 of 1/1000 of a sec) and then a thermal limit hits which causes the SSPB to completely open the circuit. This is the protection for one individual 10 amp circuit. The SSPB will have 5 independent circuits protected this way, each having a 10 amp capacity but overall limited to 20 amps all together (by a separate internal solid state fuse, limits to the charging system itself and another inline 15 amp fuse to the battery).

This process repeats itself several times per second. While this is going on there is not outward sign of an issue the bike just kept running at the slow idle. This is why the LED and warning buzzer are needed. Without them I would not even know that there was a direct short. I could remove the wire from the frame and connected it to a light and the light comes on. Remove the wire from the light and short out to the frame and the warning comes on.That is what I call safe power.

The voltage dropped while current is being supplied but it only dropped by about 1 volt.

I'm sure you will agree this is pretty impressive. All power from the SSPB is protected in one of the 5 circuits which is anything connected to the 10 pin connector.

If this had been an ignition circuit short, it would have been easy to diagnose because as soon as you turn on your kill switch the buzzer will come on and the bike will not fire.

If it is the signal circuit, then no brake lights or blinkers and the buzzer is on.

If it is the HEADLAMP circuit same thing.

[posplayr]

Knowing all the electrical discussions you have had on this site, doing this seems to be a logical path for you. This is a pretty neat product and will keep my relays I bought a month ago sitting on the shelf in wait for the availability of this unit. If you send out a PM when it's available, put me on the list.

I've laid out thousands of feet of wire during my lifetime in hot rods, vehicle test instrumentation, and god knows what else. Also spend a lot of time in forums helping people with electrical issues and modifications. And while not as bad as some, tend to glance through instructions. Some of Robert's warnings ring true with my experience in dealing with some people in the auto
forums as well, although that should not dampen this project.

I was just reading this thread and I have to LOL, I'm starting to think that the plumbing analogy for electrical circuits has probably done more to undermine the common man's understanding, care and handling of electricity than anything else.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1902294&postcount=14

Yes after being here on this website for about the last 5 years, I have become exposed to all kinds of "bad practices" that I could really not have imagined considering my aerospace background.

What sets this product apart from other approaches using multi-purpose fuse boxes is that it will be specialized to an application with specific directions for a GS Suzuki. Suzuki did a pretty darn good job of maintaining consistency in at least the wire color coding of various GS circuits so that is a significant enabler for GS version of this product. I have looked at the GSXR's with alternators and I thing with small variation the SSPB will work there as well. I plan to explore other other bike models (Honda, Kawasaki) as well, but I'm clearly more experienced with the GS line so that is where I'm focusing at the moment.

Invariably those directions won't be clear, or won't be read and the SSPB won't work as intended. The premise is that we can't expect an installer to necessarily understand all the connections, but they do need to follow the directions. But as just stated, they wont!!! Even though it is in male DNA to only read directions when all else fails, ultimately the directions are going to be easier to follow than to make everybody comprehend how it all works and properly execute and custom install. At some point if you don't understand the theory and you wont follow directions and you cant get help then it won't work.

I accept this realization and that I can not design around this situation. My objective is to avoid having that person burn up their bike no matter what they do (at least due to a mis-connected SSPB). Having gone through a fault analysis I think this can be achieved, although there are probably some more things that I have not though of.

In some respects, as a product I liken the SSPB to the motorcycle decals products. In the hands of a professional or at least a proficient installer the results will be as desired. However there are plenty of ways to screw up the install including what you do with the paint gun. In the case of a decal, you pretty much have to start over if you over spray with clear and lift the decal. With the SSPB you can keep trying until you get it right and the warning will tell you when you have something wrong. A decal is even a lower value item, so comparatively, as a product, the SSPB is significantly better.

As far as the SSPB in comparison to other electrical components, it is on par with a coil relay modification coupled with an R/R install. However, to my mind the typical coil relay mods (for the average person) are overly complicated and very confusing because there are so many sets of directions that have be posted. In that regard there will only be one set of directions for the SSBP (at least for one application).

There is the issue or requiring an acceptable if not proper technique for crimping and soldering the connector /harness contacts. Go back to the decal example, you have to have a certain level of expertise and aptitude. If you cant crimp and solder a wire, you probably should not install this yourself. This is not necessarily bad as it also opens an opportunity for an network of "installers".

As far as the SSPB R/R to Battery connections, they are simpler than current "standard practice". I know most people directly wire R/R's to batteries and then put in excessively large fuses to compensate for what I at least consider mis-wiring. Of course my preferred solution has the down side of using the original fuse box but that is also why the SSPB is designed as it is to make that issue go away.

A design objective is that the SSPB can't fry a harness because it was mis-connected so that is also a given. The only solution here is that the "installer" will have to keep trying until they get all the connections correct. I guess this is where the warning and buzzer come in as at least it will tell you if it is happy with the connections.

Thanks for the comments and the support.

Knowing all the electrical discussions you have had on this site, doing this seems to be a logical path for you. This is a pretty neat product and will keep my relays I bought a month ago sitting on the shelf in wait for the availability of this unit. If you send out a PM when it's available, put me on the list.

I've laid out thousands of feet of wire during my lifetime in hot rods, vehicle test instrumentation, and god knows what else. Also spend a lot of time in forums helping people with electrical issues and modifications. And while not as bad as some, tend to glance through instructions. Some of Robert's warnings ring true with my experience in dealing with some people in the auto forums as well, although that should not dampen this project.

[posplayr]

I agree , I think you are on a good path with this product But I wouldn't want to be you selling an electrical part to the open public.

Point noted ,

The complexity of installation should be on par in terms of complexity with doing a coil relay mod but at the same time provide much more. It is certainly less involved than a complete system relay mod or for that matter complete harness rebuilds.

If there is anything that seems complicated or unclear about the functionality let me know. To me the drawing is very clear as it is to another engineer that I have reviewing the design right now. Of course as history will tell, hat doesn't mean the bulk of the members will understand .

[hjfisk]

Entirely separate from the product you're mapping out here, I suggest you evaluate your tolerance for frustration. You're going to sell an electrical component to people whose levels of expertise and ambition span the entire spectrum. You will get a number of buyers who are inexplicably but militantly opposed to reading anything -- even anything that looks like a product description, let alone installation instructions, and it doesn't matter how thorough you are in preparing the instructions or the website, because they're not going to read them anyway.

They're out there, and they'll buy your item, and a few days later you'll start getting emails with questions that make absolutely no sense; and they'll try to install this item using some rusty arc-joint pliers and a tinner's soldering iron. And after a while, you will wonder how these people manage to dress themselves in the morning -- but they're convinced there's a problem with your product, and they want their money back.

Now, with the products I sell, I have the option to 'abort the mission' with a problem buyer by telling him to return the items, and I'll offer a full refund, just to make the headache go away, and I eat the cost.

You aren't going to have that option. It's going to be tough to absorb a percentage of 'lost causes' with the gross cost of this product. Now, consider that what you're selling is perhaps 50 times more complicated than the stuff I sell, and I can foresee some forehead slaps in your future.

Obviously, there are outfits that manage to sell electrical parts to the general public, and I hope you succeed too; I'm just suggesting that it would be a mistake to underestimate how unbelievably obtuse and unmotivated some of your buyers are going to be.

You'll need some iron-clad return policies, but like I said -- they're not going to read them, either.

I agree , I think you are on a good path with this product But I wouldn't want to be you selling an electrical part to the open public.