Charging Problem

[Guest]

So i now have a charging issue, it died on me the other night , boosted it got it home, charged battery 12.65 volts and got it to 13.50 running with volt meter, i have a stator out of a katana 750 will that work to see if that is the issue or should i order a rectifier , please help all you suzuki guru,s lol, thanx in advance for your help, Brian

[spyug]

You should go through the fault diagnosis page in the Stator Papers to pinpoint exactly what the issues are. Having said that, in my experience, the problem with poor charging is usually faulty regulator rectifiers. But its not always the R/r but sometimes the connections to and from them, especially the grounds.

You could do a cleanup of all connectors and contacts to and from the r/r and the fuseblock and try adding another ground wire from the ground on the r/r (black with white tracer) directly to the negative pole on the battery. That will often help the situation.

Whatever you do, don't just go switching things out before you check and test and as I said follow the chart in the SPs.

good luck with it.
Spyug

[Nessism]

One of the most common of all GS bike problems. Some maintenance will go a long way toward avoiding problems (clean connectors and rewire system to avoid the convoluted stock wiring scheme and improve grounds). A series style R/R is also highly recommended.

[posplayr]

So i now have a charging issue, it died on me the other night , boosted it got it home, charged battery 12.65 volts and got it to 13.50 running with volt meter, i have a stator out of a katana 750 will that work to see if that is the issue or should i order a rectifier , please help all you suzuki guru,s lol, thanx in advance for your help, Brian

There is a lot of diagnostic information avaliable by doing a quick test. Sorry the information you provided tells little if anything conclusive.
And as Ed posted, the are required modifications to the charging system that are required . They are dumarized in gs charging health.

[robertbarr]

They are dumarized in gs charging health.

Hmm. Is there some form of translation for this?

Yes, you need to do some reading first, and then (if necessary) ask questions. There's a boatload of information within two mouse clicks for you to explore at your leisure.

[posplayr]

Hmm. Is there some form of translation for this?

Yes, you need to do some reading first, and then (if necessary) ask questions. There's a boatload of information within two mouse clicks for you to explore at your leisure.

Freudian slip of the Iphone

[chef1366]

Freudian slip of the Iphone

Likely story.

[tom203]

Likely story.

I thought he was working on new book "GS charging systems for Dummies"

[rustybronco]

If that were the case he would have used the word dumberized.

[spyug]

As mentioned, charging issues are likely the number one bug-bear of these old scoots. Of my last 6 bikes, 5 of them had issues and four of them were GSs. In 3 cases ( the GSs) cleaning up the connectors and or changing them to new spades and adding more grounds fixed the issues. Only one of them required a fresh r/r.

If you do need a new r/r (after you determine this is the issue when you perform the fault diagnosis testing.. hint, hint) Mr. Matchless has created a giant list of suitable r/rs that you can use. Many of us have had success with Shindengen models (commonly used on Hondas) as they are more robust it seems but there are also more modern MOSFET types that highly regarded but likely a bit more expensive.

So where does it stand at the moment? Likely too hot in the garage to get anything done these days?

cheers,
spyug

[celesboy1]

As mentioned, charging issues are likely the number one bug-bear of these old scoots. Of my last 6 bikes, 5 of them had issues and four of them were GSs. In 3 cases ( the GSs) cleaning up the connectors and or changing them to new spades and adding more grounds fixed the issues. Only one of them required a fresh r/r.

If you do need a new r/r (after you determine this is the issue when you perform the fault diagnosis testing.. hint, hint) Mr. Matchless has created a giant list of suitable r/rs that you can use. Many of us have had success with Shindengen models (commonly used on Hondas) as they are more robust it seems but there are also more modern MOSFET types that highly regarded but likely a bit more expensive.

So where does it stand at the moment? Likely too hot in the garage to get anything done these days?

cheers,
spyug

yess...agreed....even almost all GS250 in indonesia has same problem too....but , with DIY custom wiring and change original R/R with another type R/R....you can clear your problem....

FYI : its quite popular that many GS250 in indonesia swap original R/R (SH-572) with shindengen SH-640 coz its more reliable (originally , SH640 use by an 150cc yamaha fuel injection that called yamaha vixion in indonesia)

for my own bike....i prefer using shindengen FH series (mosfet) rather than old tech SH (shunt style)....coz FH series can provide much bigger ampere and most important thing is FH series is almost not produce any heat

[Gorminrider]

noted. good one,celesboy!

[Steve]

If that were the case he would have used the word dumberized.

Which only begs the question: Did he accidentally substitute a "d" for an "s" (in which case there should be another "m"), or did he simply forget the "b"?
Summarized
"Dumarized"
Dumberized



Either way, it's a wonderful "slip of the finger".

for my own bike....i prefer using shindengen FH series (mosfet) rather than old tech SH (shunt style)....coz FH series can provide much bigger ampere and most important thing is FH series is almost not produce any heat

Just in case you were not aware, the MOSFET FH series regulators are still a shunt-style regulator.

The two advantages they have are that they will pass a bit more current at lower engine speeds (due to the way the MOSFET rectifies the incoming AC) and the lower heat, which is a result of the MOSFET switching faster than the silicon-based transistors in the SH series. During full ON or full OFF states, there is virtually no heat, only during the switching phase. Since the MOSFETs have a shorter switching time, there is less heat.

For even better results, try a series-type R/R. We have them here in the Polaris utility vehicles, starting with the 2011 model year. Not sure you would have those vehicles over there, but you might have something similar.

.

[celesboy1]

Just in case you were not aware, the MOSFET FH series regulators are still a shunt-style regulator.

The two advantages they have are that they will pass a bit more current at lower engine speeds (due to the way the MOSFET rectifies the incoming AC) and the lower heat, which is a result of the MOSFET switching faster than the silicon-based transistors in the SH series. During full ON or full OFF states, there is virtually no heat, only during the switching phase. Since the MOSFETs have a shorter switching time, there is less heat.

For even better results, try a series-type R/R. We have them here in the Polaris utility vehicles, starting with the 2011 model year. Not sure you would have those vehicles over there, but you might have something similar.

.

ahh...thx for the complete explanation....i noted it....
i'm just a rookie and learn by myself....so there so many thing that i still dn't know....that why i'm gladly have discussion in GSR

[posplayr]

Which only begs the question: Did he accidentally substitute a "d" for an "s" (in which case there should be another "m"), or did he simply forget the "b"?
Summarized
"Dumarized"
Dumberized



Either way, it's a wonderful "slip of the finger".




Just in case you were not aware, the MOSFET FH series regulators are still a shunt-style regulator.

The two advantages they have are that they will pass a bit more current at lower engine speeds (due to the way the MOSFET rectifies the incoming AC) and the lower heat, which is a result of the MOSFET switching faster than the silicon-based transistors in the SH series. During full ON or full OFF states, there is virtually no heat, only during the switching phase. Since the MOSFETs have a shorter switching time, there is less heat.

For even better results, try a series-type R/R. We have them here in the Polaris utility vehicles, starting with the 2011 model year. Not sure you would have those vehicles over there, but you might have something similar.

.

Steve,
There are really two things in general that affect power dissipation in a switching circuit as is the case with either the SHUNT or SERIES R/R's. Switching speed does makes a big difference but also the voltage drops that you get when fully switched. Depending upon the application one or the other can dominate. For GS charging it is more the forward voltage drops.

A switching circuit when in full on or full off means that the regulator is dissipating the least amount of power.
In full ON there is little voltage drop and although there is high current the product is small and therefore the power dissipation is small.

When full Off there is maximum voltage but minimum current and so again the product (power) is small.

During the switching transient you end up with voltage going from high to low and current going from low to high and in the middle is when there is a lot of power loss and therefore heat. That is why switching time is important so that you stay out of the middle.

For most switching power supplies that switch at 10 or 20 thousand times per second these are very important factors. However a typical GS at 10,000 RPM we are only switching at 2,000 (twice per stator leg per electrical cycle) so it is less important.

The bigger factors is that the MOSFET has a lower voltage drop because the ON resistance is very low (say 100 milli ohms or 0.7 Volts voltage drop when ON). The SCR's drop about 1.3V which is almost twice as much.

So if all you did was substitude MOSFETS for the SCR's (which are what is typically used in older style SHUNT R/R's ) you would be comparing begetting a reduction of 0.7/1.3 almost 50% reduction in power assuming the current stayed the same.

However the other factor that that improved power dissipation of the MOSFET SHUNT design is that 1/2 of the Diode rectification bridge is eliminated. The diode bridge adds about 1.5 volts of drop per stator leg (two diode drops) and that ius now reduced to 0.75V (i.e. 1/2 the power of the full wave rectifier.

The MOSFETS can do this because the MOSFET is controlled to conduct by a little controller built into the R/R. It senses when the stator voltage swings and reverses direction and turns on and off the MOSFET to get the currents to properly rectify. They only did this in teh lower legs and not the upper diode legs because they were apparently worried about the possibility of a FET SHORT and by eeping at least one portion of the diode bridge in place the safety margin is substantially increase. So the efficiency of the MOSFET design is in the total voltage drops for the SCR SHUNT is about 3.0 V total (diodes bridge and shunting SCR) while the MOSFET is only 1.5V total for (1/2 the diode bridge and a MOSFET short)

So the driving factors are the voltage drop as you can basically calculate power dissipation in the R/R by multiplying these voltages times the 15 amps delivered. (22.5 Watts for MOSFET and 45 Watts for SCR).

Jim