Planning to wire in GSXR750 handlebar controls to a GS1100E

[Guest]

GSXR controls are 2003
GS1100E bike is 1982

I'm looking at the GS schematic, particularly the turn signal wires and control boxes and it's very complex. the GSXR one is simple. But it's brought me some questions:
1. Is my GS supposed to auto cancel? (it doesn't)
2. Will I lose my turn signal running lights with this conversion?

Everything else has been super simple. Start switch, horn, brake light... easy.

Before I jump into the turn signal area, I thought I'd just ask some questions. hopefully someone has done this before and can lend some advice.

Thanks,
Kevin

[posplayr]

You might want to rehash the rehash. Yes you should have auto cancel if it works.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=2006494&postcount=30

Also see if this helps courtesy of Katman.

http://www.suzuki-katana.com/images/katana-controller-upgrade.jpg

[Nessism]

The auto cancel system starts triggering with a pulse contact that occurs when you push the hand control turn signal switch. The continuity is not continuous though the switch. Non auto cancel hand controls are simpler; you push the switch for the turn and the continuity is there and the flashers turn on until you turn them off. Sorry, I know just enough to be dangerous about what it would take to swap out the old controls for new, just know you will loose the auto cancel unless you find a switch that functions the same way as the old.

[CivilRock]

Ok. That helps a ton. Those links are spot on, and very entertaining/educational. Posplayr, your DIY "Instructables" link to your homemade LED flasher is so nerdy. I mean that in a positive way. I was grinning ear to ear as I was reading it.

I think I'm going to ditch the whole auto-cancel system and simplify things. 1. My bike is not even close to stock, so I'm not really concerned about keeping any originality. 2. It hasn't worked for the last 10 years I've owned the bike, so I'm not losing something I was accustomed to. 3. My auto-cancel is already hardwired into my left thumb. It happens automatically whether I want it to or not.

So if I'm re-inventing this system and deleting the whole auto-cancel box, do I need a 2nd normally closed relay to turn off the running lights? (the 2nd filament in the front turn signals) when the turn signals flash? Or is there a more sophisticated way to wire this up? I do like the signals in the front to act as running lights. But if it proves to be too much hassle, I can ditch that tiny little feature as well.

Thanks to all you geniuses out there!

-Kevin

[four_shot]

I would think that running light operation would have no affect on the t-signal circuit.

As long as they're two filament bulbs and sockets, I would think that the "signal" leads go to turnsignal switch, "running light" ties into head lamp (or dedicated park circuit) and ground does its thing.


I don't see a need to shut the park lamp off to allow for the flash to be visible. This function does increase the contrast of the flash, but is it enough to worry about?




Or i could be way off base and need to stfu.

[CivilRock]

I think you're totally right. For some reason I was thinking that the whole signal blinks. But I think you're right, it does just get brighter.
That makes it really easy.

Cheers!

[four_shot]

Sometimes we just need to remind ourselves to K.I.S.S.

[CivilRock]

Got everything wired in under the headlight, but no blinky.

This was happening before, so I knew I might have another problem. Simple question:

If I put 12v + to one terminal of the flasher, and ground another, it should "click, click, click" right?

It just clicks once and then nothing.

I'm headed to buy a new flasher, but just wanted to think out loud to ya all.

Kevin.

[CivilRock]

If I'm abandoning the auto cancel system, is there any reason to keep this 2x3x1 box that is the signal control unit? It's hard wired into the loom, but there's about 12 wires in there I'm not using anymore anyway. I was considering opening it all up (again) and doing some cleanup. Does the box do anything else besides the auto cancel?

[posplayr]

If I'm abandoning the auto cancel system, is there any reason to keep this 2x3x1 box that is the signal control unit? It's hard wired into the loom, but there's about 12 wires in there I'm not using anymore anyway. I was considering opening it all up (again) and doing some cleanup. Does the box do anything else besides the auto cancel?

The TSCU only does auto cancel, if you have a three prong flasher it should work with the TSCU disconnected.

[CivilRock]

OK, the TSCU is not hard wired into the loom, but my wiring diagram shows 7 wires going into it but this thing has 17 wires going into it.



Replaced the flasher, but still no blinky.

I feel like I'm looking at the wrong wiring diagram, and the GS1100EZ one is different. Maybe?

I think this is a major clue: When I wired in the GSXR Left control, there's an orange wire with a red trace on it that used to go to the GS Left control and now is sitting there unused. It's not addressed in the Katman diagram, but it seems to me this would provide power to this little sub system. No?

There's just so many friggen wires in this loom and I feel like I need to cut the thing open just so I can lay it out on the floor and figure out where everything goes. (I know that probably won't help, and I'll be just as lost.)

Is it me, or is this GS1100 wiring complex? I'm usually pretty good at this stuff.

-Kevin

[posplayr]

OK, the TSCU is not hard wired into the loom, but my wiring diagram shows 7 wires going into it but this thing has 17 wires going into it.

Replaced the flasher, but still no blinky.

I feel like I'm looking at the wrong wiring diagram, and the GS1100EZ one is different. Maybe?

I think this is a major clue: When I wired in the GSXR Left control, there's an orange wire with a red trace on it that used to go to the GS Left control and now is sitting there unused. It's not addressed in the Katman diagram, but it seems to me this would provide power to this little sub system. No?

There's just so many friggen wires in this loom and I feel like I need to cut the thing open just so I can lay it out on the floor and figure out where everything goes. (I know that probably won't help, and I'll be just as lost.)

Is it me, or is this GS1100 wiring complex? I'm usually pretty good at this stuff.

-Kevin

That is the brain box to detect faults and lights your no less than 6 fault lights in the gauges; you got rid of that so I guess you could hack that out as well.

ORANGE/RED (O/R) is universally the HEADLAMP +12V power. Switched power from the fusebox to power headlamp through the left hand switch.

You signals should run off of ORANGE/GREEN (O/G).

You got the SSPB correct? I would wait to install it after you make all these changes.

Yes I would guess the 82/83 GS1100E harnesses are pretty complex given the additional TSCU and Warning lights wiring, however, the Turn signals are still rather simple.

1. ORANGE/GREEN (O/G) supplies power to FLASHER (fuse box output)
   
2. Output of the Flasher is LIGHT BLUE(Lbl) and goes to the left hand control switch and comes out as either:
   • left hand BLACK (B) or
   • right hand LIGHT GREEN (Lg)
   
   
   These two wires drive the signals and dash lights. If you have only one you will need to connect them through diodes to flash a single dash light.

.
You probably need to recheck your wiring at the left hand switch.

Also if you look at the original schematic for the left hand control O/R goes to the left hand switch as a power signal for signalling the TSCU.


The TSCU and Fault Brain Box can be removed and these signals should still work.
The only thing the TSCU does is stop the flash by applying +12V to the BLACK/BLUE (B/Bl) on the 3 prong OEM Flasher. Remove the TSCU to get the signals working first.


Are you really trying to turn that thing into a stripped down bobber or just get the signal to work?

[CivilRock]

Are you really trying to turn that thing into a stripped down bobber or just get the signal to work?

Thanks for the help. Those explanations simplify things for me.

To answer your question, I do just want them to work, but I also want a full understanding of this wiring. Right now my wiring is smarter than me, and I need to master it. That might mean stripping down the harness until I can digest it.

I believe I had a simple problem with the flasher, but I' haven't tested it yet. I think the old flasher was broken, and electronic flasher I bought was hooked up backwards. I only figured that out after I completely dove in and started tracing paths of every system. I had a large mole hill of e-tape when I was done, and enough extra wire to build a Robin's nest.

The brain box seems to have some other functions other than the idiot lights. As some of the headlight wires go directly in it. I'm going to leave that part mostly intact, but I'm removing all the wires that I know I'm not using. All the wires going to the TSCU are gone. Since I have the Dyna 2000, the ignition system wires are removed, and most of the idiot lights for the stock dash are yanked. No side stand switch. There's a couple more, but anything not used is gone.

While I have this all apart and it's fresh in my head I started installing the SSPB. I should have my new Series R/R this week as well, and I'm going to do it all at once. I know that was against your advice, but I feel a lot more confident now that I have this whole thing apart and a good understanding of what's what.

I am going to boldly predict that everything will work when I button it all up.

-Kevin

[posplayr]

Thanks for the help. Those explanations simplify things for me.

To answer your question, I do just want them to work, but I also want a full understanding of this wiring. Right now my wiring is smarter than me, and I need to master it. That might mean stripping down the harness until I can digest it.

I believe I had a simple problem with the flasher, but I' haven't tested it yet. I think the old flasher was broken, and electronic flasher I bought was hooked up backwards. I only figured that out after I completely dove in and started tracing paths of every system. I had a large mole hill of e-tape when I was done, and enough extra wire to build a Robin's nest.

The brain box seems to have some other functions other than the idiot lights. As some of the headlight wires go directly in it. I'm going to leave that part mostly intact, but I'm removing all the wires that I know I'm not using. All the wires going to the TSCU are gone. Since I have the Dyna 2000, the ignition system wires are removed, and most of the idiot lights for the stock dash are yanked. No side stand switch. There's a couple more, but anything not used is gone.

While I have this all apart and it's fresh in my head I started installing the SSPB. I should have my new Series R/R this week as well, and I'm going to do it all at once. I know that was against your advice, but I feel a lot more confident now that I have this whole thing apart and a good understanding of what's what.

I am going to boldly predict that everything will work when I button it all up.

-Kevin

The brain box (actually it is called check panel) senses the current draw through the headlamp, tail lights and brake lights (again see figure on page 11-21 of the manual) among other things. If you have no dash lights then not there is not much reason for most of the check panel box. Check the manual to see which ones you would want to retain.

As far as integration of the SSPB separately, It was just a gentle suggestion to keep things simple. The only complicated part is the modifications to the Kill switch wiring and that is rather simple. See this thread for more suggestions.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=218780

That is obviously not your approach so the SSPB should make thinks easier considering you are jumping in with both feet. If you do short something it will tell you and you dont have to change out fuses looking for the short.

I would offer one last suggestion which is to make sure everything works correctly before you re-wrap the whole harness (err been there done that ).

Good luck, I'm sure it will work out.

[CivilRock]

I would offer one last suggestion which is to make sure everything works correctly before you re-wrap the whole harness (err been there done that ).

Oh, you can be sure I will be testing everything. I'm already pre-testing each step just to make sure I'm going the right direction.

So I can delete the check panel black box completely? I've already removed 1/2 the wires from it. The only hesitation I have is that on the microfiche that black box is described as a "Head Lamp Relay". Although that's not a full description of what it does, it makes me think there is a headlight relay in there. Does the SSPB have enough output to directly power the headlight? Or am I going to use the O/R feed out of the SSPB to signal a relay for the headlight?

10 amps x 12v = 120 watts right? What's the headlight? 50-60 watts?

So the < 5 amps for the headlight is fine. I think I just answered my own question.

-Kevin