Charging at 13.5V

[duaneage]

This was my first thought as well. I did wire in a new Ricks R/R and got the identical results as the other R/R. Do you think a Honda R/R would make a difference?

The ugly truth may end up being the stator. If the stator can't deliver power under old then it's done. All things considered it's easy to fix compared to other problems and other bikes. With no battery the system should run above 14 volts. You could try starting it then removing the negative from the battery. The bike should stay running and system voltage should be 14 or higher

If not the stator ( with the ricks rr ) is the last thing. It is the power source after all.

[posplayr]

I just tried Nessism's idea and hooked up a jumper between the R/R and the battery using the positive and negative leads. The results were 13.64v at 1500 RPM and 13.32v at 5000 RPM. A slight improvement, but not the answer. I guess this shows that the voltage drop in the harness is minimal.
Previous to this I closely examined the positive lead and the fuse box. Every spade connection is clean and shiny and measures no resistance within the fuse box and the positive lead to the battery.
Posplayr, I'm a bit confused on the positive lead voltage drop test. My test was a loss of under 0.25v. I thought that was a good thing. The negative test shower a loss of greater than 0.25v. But you are saying the voltage drop should increase with RPM, the same way battery voltage should increase with RPM?

All voltage drops should be low and a total of less than 0.25V is acceptable. That would drop a 14.5V charging level to only 14.25V

Remember the voltage drops are associated with resistance values that are well below 0.1 ohms. At 10 amps it only requires 0.025 ohms to produce a 0.25V drop. So using alligator clips to go around the harness is probably not going to do it.

I used the 0.25V as an upper limit because if you have 0.25v on both + and - leads then a 14.5V R/R charging level will be reduced to 14.0V at the battery.

This is the absolute worst I would recommend and I would hope that you are closer to 0.25v total for both rather than 0.25v individually. If you clean the fuse box and ground chemically and then uses a contact cleaner like Deoxit you should be able to get the total drops under 0.1V-0.2V (TOTAL). Thus is then on the order of the voltage drops due to just finite wire sizes. Also the single point grounding I describe makes the current flowing between the battery and R/R less and so the voltage drops are less as well.

When you charging voltage drops as RPM goes up it is more than likely the connections. There is an increase in current demand as RPM goes up and so with increase current there are increased voltage losses and therefor less voltage at the battery.

It is also possible the stator is just at the hairy edge, but the only way to know that is if the battery voltage levels are no less than 14.5V - (total voltage drops).

[posplayr]

This was my first thought as well. I did wire in a new Ricks R/R and got the identical results as the other R/R. Do you think a Honda R/R would make a difference?

Before changing any R/R, I would use the one you have and go through a process of cleaning the wiring until the voltage drops are as good as you can get them and then report the Quick Test results again. Then go from there.

[HamamatsuSuzi]

I want to thank everyone for their assistance so far. I'm quickly learning about resistance and voltage drops, interesting.
I have cleaned my connections and was pretty happy with them, but I will go at it again. The fuse block is a sealed plastic unit with blade fuses. I would have to cut it to get inside. The ground cable is attached to a rear engine case bolt that requires the monoshock and mounting brackets be removed. Dam you Suzuki.
How acutely can resistance build up? It was only a short time ago that my system was putting put 14.7v at 5000 RPM. Like most riders here, I monitor it regularly.
Let me give you more history about my charging issue. The very first indication there was a problem was a dead battery during a ride. I charged the battery and hooked up my multimeter and went for a test ride. Charging was normal with high 13's at idle and 14.7v max at speed. After 8 minutes the voltage acutely dropped to battery voltage through all rev ranges. I replaced the battery the next day and did another test ride. Same results, normal charge, but at the 8 minute mark the charge was lost. I didn't include this information earlier because once I changed out the Reg/Rec, the intermittent charge was fixed, it was no longer an issue. It was just low.

[posplayr]

I want to thank everyone for their assistance so far. I'm quickly learning about resistance and voltage drops, interesting.
I have cleaned my connections and was pretty happy with them, but I will go at it again. The fuse block is a sealed plastic unit with blade fuses. I would have to cut it to get inside. The ground cable is attached to a rear engine case bolt that requires the monoshock and mounting brackets be removed. Dam you Suzuki.
How acutely can resistance build up? It was only a short time ago that my system was putting put 14.7v at 5000 RPM. Like most riders here, I monitor it regularly.
Let me give you more history about my charging issue. The very first indication there was a problem was a dead battery during a ride. I charged the battery and hooked up my multimeter and went for a test ride. Charging was normal with high 13's at idle and 14.7v max at speed. After 8 minutes the voltage acutely dropped to battery voltage through all rev ranges. I replaced the battery the next day and did another test ride. Same results, normal charge, but at the 8 minute mark the charge was lost. I didn't include this information earlier because once I changed out the Reg/Rec, the intermittent charge was fixed, it was no longer an issue. It was just low.

If you have blade fuses you don't need to open it just clean all contacts on the outside. The back will pop off and only nee a little glue if you want to convince yourself of the same.

You ask:

How acutely can resistance build up?

I responded before that 0.025 ohms IS ACUTE to your charging system.


Try and measure 0.025 ohms with your VOM and
Compare it to the resistance to what get measuring other things that you think are a direct shorts. Your VOM probably does not even go below 0.1 ohms.

At 0.1 ohms lowest resolution of your VOM, corresponds to 1 V of error at 10 amps flow. You have two sides to measure, so you could measure 0.1 ohms on both sides and not be able to get over 12.5V at the battery when your R/R is putting out 14.5V (14.5-2.0=12.5V)


It takes very very very little (1/Very^3) resistance to upset the charging system so very very little (1/Very^2) is ACUTE.

[chuck hahn]

Take a small flat tip and gently pry the back off the battery box right where the little pins stick thru. Clean it up and then use some RTV to reseal it..or your fav glue.

[posplayr]

Take a small flat tip and gently pry the back off the battery box right where the little pins stick thru. Clean it up and then use some RTV to reseal it..or your fav glue.

The older style (horizontal tabs) have internal crimps and need to be opened chemically cleaned and crimps soldered.
Old style looks like this and should be opened. If there is a pig tail going into the fuse box then you can be sure there are crimps. No pig tail, no crimps.





The newer style with blade and diagonal tabs are solid copper side. They don't need to be opened just have the external contacts chemically cleaned.

[HamamatsuSuzi]

It has a 7 pin connector. is that considered a pig tail?

[posplayr]

It has a 7 pin connector. is that considered a pig tail?

A pig tail is wires. I don't see any wires.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pigtail

a short, flexible wire used in connecting a stationary terminal with a terminal having a limited range of motion.
b.a short wire connected to an electric device, as a lead or ground.

[HamamatsuSuzi]

So more cleaning, more contact cleaner, closer inspection. I partly opened the fuse block that had brass plates and sprayed it with contact cleaner. It was shiny when opened. I did new voltage drop test.

Positive lead voltage drop test at idle---0.17v at 5000 RPM--0.08v

Negative lead voltage drop test at idle---0.68v at 5000RPM--0.42v

The results are similar to the first test.

[posplayr]

So more cleaning, more contact cleaner, closer inspection. I partly opened the fuse block that had brass plates and sprayed it with contact cleaner. It was shiny when opened. I did new voltage drop test.

Positive lead voltage drop test at idle---0.17v at 5000 RPM--0.08v

Negative lead voltage drop test at idle---0.68v at 5000RPM--0.42v

The results are similar to the first test.

Your grounding is poor.

See GS Charging health in my signature.

I would also reverse the leads when doing this tests to see if the meter has a bias. The numbers should always go up with RPM not down.

[850 Combat]

Adding grounds has corrected that situation for me several times. Every time except for once.

[HamamatsuSuzi]

OK, tomorrow I will make a new single point ground. I already am 1/3 there as I have a dedicated ground wire from the R/R mounting bolt to the battery negative. I will make up a new ground wire, is 12 gage good? I'll attach it to the same R/R mounting bolt then onto a close by bolt on the monoshock bracket. Make up a new wire from the neg R/R to the same mounting bolt. Then attach the harness ground to the other R/R mounting bolt. Is that right?

[chuck hahn]

Clean all the ground loops coming off the harness as well as their connection points on the frame too.

[posplayr]

You should bring together 4 soldered ring lugs together at the r/r mounting point

Batt(-) **
R/R(-)
Frame ground **
Harness B/W

** If the other end of each wire is also a ring lug then solder it as well.

If your frame ground is mounted in rubber that is not good.

Use plenty of flux on clean wire when you prepare grounds.