Stumped by charging output problem

[pmong]

Forgot to give you the no-load AC output readings.

At high rev (no tac), output for all three pairs is over 80 volts. Manual (yes, i recall you saying that you have moved beyond the manual) specifies that if under 75v, then the AC generator is faulty.

==============
Added. Did you "STEP #2 MEASURE POSITIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP" (actually recall seeing the diagram when I first got the GS450GA but completely forgot it). The voltage is about 0.5 to 0.6, which seems to indicate a bad connection for the positive lead.

The above readings are after I previously did the following. I had previously unwrapped the harness to get to the red wire. Check for any cracks in the wire (did not see any). Check the junction the splits the signal to the battery and to the rest of the circuit (looks good). Applied contact cleaning solution to the fuse connection. Same with where the wire connected at the starter relay.

I can try and redo the above again to see if I can improve connections for the red lead, but I have to get a new can of contact cleaning solution. Ran out from all the cleaning of various connections.

Where else might I check for possible bad connection?

Or should I just move to "STEP #3 MEASURE NEGATIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP"?

[posplayr]

Hope that you can have a little patience with me as I try to work this out. Here are some numbers from the Quick Test. Sorry that I did not include them earlier.

1.) key off................Normal 12.7 volts-12.9 volts -- I have 12.7 to 12.8

2.) key on (but not cranking with lights for 10 sec).....Normal 12.2-12.5 volts Drops to about 12.3-12.5.

3.) at idle (1500 rpm).....12.6volts - 13.2volts Slightly over 13.2

4.) at 2500 rpm 13.5 -14.0 volts Get to about 13.5-13.6 (but GS450GA has no tach)

5.) at 5000 rpm.....14.0 -15.0 volts Does not go over 13.6 even when at very high rev (again no tach so just by sound)

6.) key off.....slightly higher than measurements # 1 (12.8-13.0 v) Around 13 volts, depending on how long I have the motor running.

According to your diagnostics, this implies not a good ground. Tested the B/W wire at plug for continuity with a good bolt, and found no measurable resistance. To be safe, went through and cleaned connections with contact cleaner solution just in case. But that did not increase the R&R voltage output at high rev.

Some other tests (no-load AC output, which passed spec), etc. based on manual. Based on result, I eliminated the possible problem with a bad stator and the connection between the stator and the R&R, I think.

Also, tried testing individual wires in the harness to see if I have any shorts or leakage in the wires in the harness. Did not find any with the ohm meter.

I can try your suggestion about rewiring the ground wire (B/W), but I don't want to do that unless necessary. I don't want to cut into the original wire, and I may not do a good job with the rewiring. This would be a last resort.

Your voltage is too low, which could be either stator of the connections

You can not test the resistance as the resistance levels are below the resolution of your meter. At 10 amps and 0.1 ohms (typical meter resolution) you are talking 1 whole volt of drop. You have to measure the resistance as a voltage drop.

Test according to revised Phase A tests in GS Charging Health.

You need something like Deoxit or other chemical cleaner and corrosion preventative.

If you have big drops clean them, if not then the stator is going out.

[pmong]

Your voltage is too low, which could be either stator of the connections

You can not test the resistance as the resistance levels are below the resolution of your meter. At 10 amps and 0.1 ohms (typical meter resolution) you are talking 1 whole volt of drop. You have to measure the resistance as a voltage drop.

Test according to revised Phase A tests in GS Charging Health.

You need something like Deoxit or other chemical cleaner and corrosion preventative.

If you have big drops clean them, if not then the stator is going out.

Oops, see my last email. I was busy with the test and typing up the results.

I am using a product call PUREtronics Contact Cleaner, which I bought at an electronics store. I also use it on other electronics, such as connectors for computers and model airplanes. It does not list the ingredients (which seems strange now that I try looking for the components).

Is there any product you recommend and/or use?

[pmong]

Here is what I added via edits to an earlier post:

Added. Did you "STEP #2 MEASURE POSITIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP" (actually recall seeing the diagram when I first got the GS450GA but completely forgot it). The voltage is about 0.5 to 0.6, which seems to indicate a bad connection for the positive lead.

The above readings are after I previously did the following. I had previously unwrapped the harness to get to the red wire. Check for any cracks in the wire (did not see any). Check the junction the splits the signal to the battery and to the rest of the circuit (looks good). Applied contact cleaning solution to the fuse connection. Same with where the wire connected at the starter relay.

I can try and redo the above again to see if I can improve connections for the red lead, but I have to get a new can of contact cleaning solution. Ran out from all the cleaning of various connections.

Where else might I check for possible bad connection?

Or should I just move to "STEP #3 MEASURE NEGATIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP"?

[posplayr]

Deoxit is a good product, if they are really dirty naval jelly with water fush them Deoxit. It leaves a protective coating after naval jelly strips all. 0.6v is way too much and probably means that it is not a stator issue.

Chase down l connections between battery and r/ r till the voltage drops are low. Your charging should steadily increase to about 14.5 v.

You have a series r/r right?


Yes both sides need to be low.

[pmong]

If you have big drops clean them, if not then the stator is going out.

What is a big drop?

I have a new Caltric stator and gasket in anticipation that one day the old one will fail, but have not had it installed. That is another "big job" for me, and likely will need to find some help.

[posplayr]

What is a big drop?

I have a new Caltric stator and gasket in anticipation that one day the old one will fail, but have not had it installed. That is another "big job" for me, and likely will need to find some help.

0.6v is a big voltage drop !!!

Read GS stator for the nth time. It will explain the r/r issues that are now solved.

[pmong]

You have a series r/r right?

Not sure. What is a series R&R?

I am using one from Rick's Motorsport R&R, which some on this or another motorcycle forum say is a good product. The leads are compatible with the original harness on the GS450GA. Cannot find out anything more about the specification.

A little history. The original R&R went bad around 2k, and i replaced it with a used Honda R&R that Steve had on his list. That went bad recently (after a few thousand miles), letting 18v come across. That may be why my battery died and one of the coils was burnt.

[posplayr]

Not sure. What is a series R&R?

I am using one from Rick's Motorsport R&R, which some on this or another motorcycle forum say is a good product. The leads are compatible with the original harness on the GS450GA. Cannot find out anything more about the specification.

A little history. The original R&R went bad around 2k, and i replaced it with a used Honda R&R that Steve had on his list. That went bad recently (after a few thousand miles), letting 18v come across. That may be why my battery died and one of the coils was burnt.

A little history ( from about 4 posts ago)

Read GS Stator.

[posplayr]

A little history ( from about 4 posts ago)

Read GS Stator.

See previous post

[pmong]

0.6v is a big voltage drop !!!

Read GS stator for the nth time. It will explain the r/r issues that are now solved.

Did one more test before it got dark. The negative-lead test shows about 0.4-0.5 volt drop. Of course, I did not go back an recleaned the red lead connection because I am out of cleaning solution. So this may not be a valid test.

Reading the suggested calculations from your PDF, does that mean I am losing about a volt? That would mean that the output would have been 14.3-14.5 volts without the drop through the leads, which would otherwise be in the ideal range. I can be completely wrong.

I will try to find time to read more carefully your GS stator.

I do greatly appreciate all of the help.

[tkent02]

What was that about carrying a horse?

[2BRacing]

Of course, I did not go back an recleaned the red lead connection because I am out of cleaning solution.

I will try to find time to read more carefully your GS stator.

To the OP:

I have been following this thread, although I have not posted anything in it yet. I would like to make 3 points:

(1) It is not clear to me exactly how you are cleaning the connections, but I would like to suggest that if you are just spraying the connections "as is" with contact cleaner, this is not good enough. You should pull apart/unscrew the connectors and first brush them with a small brass/stainless steel brush, or use fine wet and dry sandpaper to get them nice and shiny. Only then spray with contact cleaner, before re-connecting the connections. Alternatively use Naval Jelly for cleaning the contacts. You will find many threads on this cleaning process with the "Search" function.

(2) Secondly, for best long-lasting results, the newest information on GSR actually suggests not to use the Rick's products, but rather the SH775 Series R/R, which is a Polaris ATV part. Again, using "Search" will bring up many threads on this subject.

(3) Finally, you will never get optimal performance unless you add additional earth wires as explained by Posplayr in the excellent information links in his signature. You do not have to cut your original wires, just add some new ones. In one of your previous posts you said: ..."I can try your suggestion about rewiring the ground wire (B/W), but I don't want to do that unless necessary. I don't want to cut into the original wire, and I may not do a good job with the rewiring. This would be a last resort".

Upgrading the earthing system is one of the FIRST things you should do to ensure proper charging performance.

I can assure you that I am not an electrical fundi at all, but just by reading Posplayr's information (yes, sometimes 3 or more times over!) and then doing what is suggested, you will have all your Volts back.

Good luck!