Still learning this stuff

[wymple]

As I understand it, the rectifier part converts ac to dc, and regulator part basically gets rid of any unneeded extra voltage. On the shunt type, this is done by heat dissipation? And I gather that the regulator is better off if the juice is being used up by headlights, etc., as it then has less to shunt off, and should therefore run cooler? If true, wouldn't ADDING some load, like extra lighting, be good for the R/R? Or is this all wrong?

[tkent02]

Adding load is good, switching to a modern series R/R is better. It switches the alternator off when it's not needed instead of shunting current to ground. NO excess heat to dissipate, no heating up the oil, no fried stators, it's all good.

[posplayr]

As I understand it, the rectifier part converts ac to dc, and regulator part basically gets rid of any unneeded extra voltage. On the shunt type, this is done by heat dissipation? And I gather that the regulator is better off if the juice is being used up by headlights, etc., as it then has less to shunt off, and should therefore run cooler? If true, wouldn't ADDING some load, like extra lighting, be good for the R/R? Or is this all wrong?

Most all of that is correct. The only thing about shunting regulation is the that excess power does get converted to heat, but the heat is in both the stator and the R/R and mostly in the stator.

[wymple]

Does the heat matter much to the stator since it is constantly washed in oil?

[tkent02]

Look at an old stator, they look cooked, even the ones that didn't fail.

[Gorminrider]

adding load makes no difference, except that you get some usage out of it....if you have a ton of headlights on or not, It don't matter with the shunt-type regulator... the stator is producing power strictly per RPM. Wit a shunt type regulator, The stator is always in a circuit...going to ground. So whether it's going to ground via lights or the regulators internal resistance, makes no diff to stator.
As I understand it, (and maybe I am not understanding all that well) the Series regulator BREAKS the circuit at the rectifying diodes when the regulation voltage is OK. ...So,the stator produces no current (no heat) because it has no path to ground;there is no "circuit".THis breakage would seem to be momentary and other effects come into my ken...
....the subtlety that confuses me is that as the stator poles pass each magnet's influence , the field collapses through the stator somewhat....and there must be more to all this.

... adding load complications: is that if your stator is not spinning fast enough,(at a stoplight), you cannot supply extra loads, and therefore your coils and battery must compete with those extra loads... So if you/I want extra running lights, well, I might put these on some kind of "relay" that switches on or off depending upon rpm or voltage or ....?

[Gorminrider]

In a hypothetical case, cruising along on a hot day where the stator's output matches the loads..say carefully matched array of lights mostly, My Fear is that stators will continue to burn up, whether Shunt or Series R/R ....

LOTS of mistakes here but...say the stator is putting out 14v X 10 amps = 140 watts Stator resistance in that circuit is neglible (what-say, 24'-30 ' of #18 gauge wire per phase winding..? what is Resistance...?)...compared to say the headlamps it is driving- it can't be much or the lights would be dim. The Wonder is why they burn up at all... It just doesn't seem like a lot . I notice in the stators I have pulled that the "normal"-type connecting wires are usually very heat stressed too- shrunken brittle insulation...until they leave the engine casing.

[tom203]

These critters seem to need about 160 watts supplied by charging system to keep bike happy- no sense having stator pumping out additional 100 watts just to have it dumped to ground. Plus the 18 gauge wires don't have to get as toasty!

[posplayr]

adding load makes no difference, except that you get some usage out of it....if you have a ton of headlights on or not, It don't matter with the shunt-type regulator... the stator is producing power strictly per RPM. Wit a shunt type regulator, The stator is always in a circuit...going to ground. So whether it's going to ground via lights or the regulators internal resistance, makes no diff to stator.
As I understand it, (and maybe I am not understanding all that well) the Series regulator BREAKS the circuit at the rectifying diodes when the regulation voltage is OK. ...So,the stator produces no current (no heat) because it has no path to ground;there is no "circuit".THis breakage would seem to be momentary and other effects come into my ken...
....the subtlety that confuses me is that as the stator poles pass each magnet's influence , the field collapses through the stator somewhat....and there must be more to all this.

... adding load complications: is that if your stator is not spinning fast enough,(at a stoplight), you cannot supply extra loads, and therefore your coils and battery must compete with those extra loads... So if you/I want extra running lights, well, I might put these on some kind of "relay" that switches on or off depending upon rpm or voltage or ....?

That is an incorrect assumption, and certainly not supported by and data.
When above about 3500 RPM the Shunt R/R is maximizing out the current in the stator (because of shunting excess current). If you add additional load, then there is less shunting to increase the load current (by decreasing stator current).
There are threads here of people burning up statro when they switch to LED lights. Why do you think that happens?

[mvalenti]

Not to hijack but are you saying that using led turn signals burn up stators?

[Gorminrider]

That is an incorrect assumption, and certainly not supported by and data.
When above about 3500 RPM the Shunt R/R is maximizing out the current in the stator (because of shunting excess current). If you add additional load, then there is less shunting to increase the load current (by decreasing stator current).
There are threads here of people burning up statro when they switch to LED lights. Why do you think that happens?

I am responding to the OP's question paraphrased as : "In the case of the shunt-type R/R, If I turn on more lights will the stator run cooler?" In the case of the shunt-type R/R, I still say no. Maybe I was not clear, because I can't conceive of any way this is not the case.

Or take a simplistic argument... If it were so simple as turning on more lights, why would anyone bother with a Fancy Series-type regulator. Adding lights is more useful.

I said (or tried to) that yes,there is less shunting through the R/R (I would call it a "dummy load"),when the lights are on etc.. but it makes no difference to the stator. It supplies all power,whether through the R/R or "Loads" (lights,coils..).... and it makes power irregardless of the nature of the loads.It makes power depending on RPM.

In a shunt-type R/R the stator is in always in the circuit and being in circuit, all power it creates is going through it,whether shunted through the dummy load of the R/R or through real loads (lights,coils). The stator has internal resistance and therefore gets hot. The only control of the stator's output and therefore its own consumption of power, and creation of heat is RPM.
If there are more loads than the stator can supply,(and only then) the battery will begin to take up the slack and "drain".
I am not sure what data could disprove this.

added and likewise, through the R/R itself.,which also has resistance and also consumes power.

I am not disagreeing with the efficacy of the "Series type" R/R. I am trying to answer the OP's question as he asked it, because it might seem that running more loads will help. Perhaps I am wrong. If you have data that shows more loads makes the stator run cooler then I 'm going out and bolting more lights on, maybe with a relay that cuts in per RPM.

[tom203]

"Or take a simplistic argument... If it were so simple as turning on more lights, why would anyone bother with a Fancy Series-type regulator. Adding lights is more useful."

It ain't fancy, it's a more advanced method of regulating the stator current to what the bike needs at any moment, rather than running it at full tilt ! You can still use all the lights you want up to the point where stator is 100%.

[Gorminrider]

If

You can still use all the lights you want up to the point where stator is 100%

the stator will get as warm as it does with a shunt-type regulator.

[Steve]

Not to hijack but are you saying that using led turn signals burn up stators?

Not directly, but let's re-word that so it's a bit more accurate.

Switching any (or even all) lights to LEDs will not reduce the load on the stator.

Unless you also switch to a series-style R/R.



With a shunt-style R/R, the stator is putting out all it can, all the time. It's output will vary with engine speed. Anything that the bike does not need (lights, ignition, capuccino maker, etc.) will get shunted (WASTED) to ground, but the stator still produces it. With a series-style R/R, the output to the bike is interrupted, which will reduce the average load on the stator. The more lights you convert to LEDs, the less current the bike will need, so the R/R will be interrupting the current more often or for longer periods of time, which reduces the load on the stator.

.