1978 GS 400 Ignition w/ CDI wiring diagram

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  • Steve
    GS Whisperer
    • Jun 2005
    • 35924
    • southwest oHIo

    #31
    To possibly help with terminology here, especially since Mailo is in Argentina, ... many people (owners, mechanics, etc.) will use the term "CDI" for any version of an electronic ignition, mainly because that was the popular upgrade for automotive systems back in the late '70s and early '80s. It will have a large capacitor, which is charged to a couple hundred volts, then discharged when the magnetic trigger 'tells' the magic black box to discharge, which it then does through the coil.

    In our bikes, current flows through the coils, which have two sets of windings, basically making them a transformer. The electric current sets up a magnetic field in the windings. When the points open to stop current flow, the magnetic field collapses. The collapsing magnetic field causes a back current in the windings, but since the points are open, the only place for it to go is out the secondary windings to the spark plugs, where it is forced to jump across a gap, which lights the fuel mixture. All of this is collectively called an "Inductive Discharge Ignition", which is pretty much based on points and coils.

    In the 1980 models, Suzuki replaced the mechanical points with a box of transistors and called it an "ignitor". It was actually a poor choice of names, as it does not ignite anything, it only interrupts current flow, just like the points did. Regardless, since it was new and electronic, a lot of people call it "CDI", which is not correct.

    Dyna makes a conversion kit for these bikes to replace the points with an electronic version, but it still uses the stock coils or an upgraded version of them. It is still not a Capacitive system, even though it is electronic.

    Apparently Mailo has come across what might be a "CDI" system, but none of us has seen one before, so we are still guessing.

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    Comment

    • Mailo

      #32
      Originally posted by posplayr
      Yes, but you should do that from the O/W from the fusebox with 10 amp fuse.

      The GS harness is designed this way:

      BAT==>+15Amp fuse==>Ign SW==>+10Amp Fuse=O/W=>KillSwitch=O/W=>Coil/Ignitor

      I show all the colors
      You are proposing powering from the spot that is underlined.
      You should find the 10amp fuse box output.
      yes i need to start the engine with ONLY THE ESSENTIAL things to know how it runs.

      Questions:
      1) The sensor has two wires, the blue one that goes to the box and other to ground. its this ok?
      2) nothing has to be connected to the stator?
      3) Im confused about this 2 wires

      Yellow= What is for the yellow wire? does it ground the coil or gives power to it?
      Black= The black powers the Coil and the CDI Box?


      Sorry for my bad english and my poor knowledge about electronics. thats why im studing mechanical engeenering and not electronics hahaha

      Comment

      • tom203
        Forum Guru
        Past Site Supporter
        • Aug 2010
        • 8925
        • Norway,Maine

        #33
        From googling , I got this

        1981 gs650L

        "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

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        • posplayr
          Forum LongTimer
          GSResource Superstar
          Past Site Supporter
          • Dec 2007
          • 23673
          • Tucson Az

          #34
          Originally posted by tom203
          The picture you show is a magneto style cdi, like you'd find on dirt bike- no battery needed,as that coil powers the ignition system . In your setup, the cdi box needs a power source to enable it to fire when triggered by sensor.
          I was thinking it might be a magneto type but there is no other coil on that breaker plate as is shown in the google search pictures.

          He probably needs a breaker plate with the magneto coil to work as a CDI and my drawing is wrong.

          Comment

          • Mailo

            #35
            Originally posted by tom203
            Yes tom i looked at PIETCARD Homepage and there are 3 types of "CDI"

            the one that fits with mine is this



            but that wiring diagram isn't the same that i have in my bike ( maybe that is why its not working)

            i can try if that setup works, but i cant figure what " BOBINA DE ALIMENTACION (ALIMENTATION COIL) " is, may they refer to the stator?

            Comment

            • posplayr
              Forum LongTimer
              GSResource Superstar
              Past Site Supporter
              • Dec 2007
              • 23673
              • Tucson Az

              #36
              Originally posted by Mailo
              yes i need to start the engine with ONLY THE ESSENTIAL things to know how it runs.

              Questions:
              1) The sensor has two wires, the blue one that goes to the box and other to ground. its this ok?
              2) nothing has to be connected to the stator?
              3) Im confused about this 2 wires

              Yellow= What is for the yellow wire? does it ground the coil or gives power to it?
              Black= The black powers the Coil and the CDI Box?


              Sorry for my bad english and my poor knowledge about electronics. thats why im studing mechanical engeenering and not electronics hahaha
              My drawing is wrong and I deleted those posts
              Last edited by posplayr; 09-09-2014, 01:10 PM.

              Comment

              • tom203
                Forum Guru
                Past Site Supporter
                • Aug 2010
                • 8925
                • Norway,Maine

                #37
                That setup with "BOBINA DE ALIMENTACION (ALIMENTATION coil ) " has to be for magneto style ignition- the cdi is charged by that coil rather than needing a battery to power it.
                1981 gs650L

                "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

                Comment

                • Mailo

                  #38
                  This is the ignitor



                  it says code: OKI MPS 200

                  Comment

                  • posplayr
                    Forum LongTimer
                    GSResource Superstar
                    Past Site Supporter
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 23673
                    • Tucson Az

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Mailo
                    This is the ignitor



                    it says code: OKI MPS 200
                    I went to tech support page and looked for 4 cycle. Translated this...............



                    The 4-stroke engines required for proper operation of the ignition curve generates a variable feed rate and RPM in different RPM jump spark must occur at different stages of progress.
                    In this case it is a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) with electronic advance with a simple curve.
                    As its name suggests uses a capacitor that is charged to a particular voltage on the coil is discharged high at the time required for the motor.
                    This type of ignition coil comprising a supply, a CDI (black box), a sensor and a coil discharge.
                    By rotating the magneto coil generates AC power which is used to charge the capacitor with the positive half cycles.
                    This keeps the stored capacitor current until the circuit issues a trigger signal which depends on engine RPM so the advance curve is variable.
                    Regarding the sensor must be of type magnetic core with the magnetic wheel outside and with a cam drive of a size of about 20 25 degrees (measured on the circumference of the wheel)
                    Progress works as follows:
                    When the engine runs at low RPM CDI circuit takes time sensor signal with a delay in the firing of the spark is generated. Upon reaching 2000 RPM that delay is minimized progressively until 3000 RPM where it shoots straight.
                    Thus from 3000 onwards the engine RPM works with forward progress.
                    This minimum and maximum advance is directly dependent on the length of the cam that excites the sensor, therefore any alteration thereof change the ignition advance curve.
                    It is CDI and it needs a magneto coil on the plate. The unit determines it's own electronic advance.

                    I feel like we are on a game show.....................
                    Last edited by posplayr; 09-09-2014, 02:04 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Mailo

                      #40
                      Posplayr i don't know if that tech information is for my ignitor

                      i found that the code of the ignitor ( in other manufacturers is )

                      OKIS MPS-200 maybe you can found something with that.


                      To see where the stator is do i have to drain the oil?? so i can took some pictures to show you guys.
                      Last edited by Guest; 09-09-2014, 02:12 PM.

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                      • posplayr
                        Forum LongTimer
                        GSResource Superstar
                        Past Site Supporter
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 23673
                        • Tucson Az

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Mailo
                        Posplayr i don't know if that tech information is for my ignitor

                        .

                        You don't? The text appears directly next to a diagram exactly like you posted above.

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                        • posplayr
                          Forum LongTimer
                          GSResource Superstar
                          Past Site Supporter
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 23673
                          • Tucson Az

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Mailo

                          To see where the stator is do i have to drain the oil?? so i can took some pictures to show you guys.
                          The magneto is apparently mounted on the ignition plate.

                          Any as I mentioned earlier, a picture of what you are talking about would help. There is no connection to the "charging system stator"

                          Comment

                          • Mailo

                            #43
                            Originally posted by posplayr
                            You don't? The text appears directly next to a diagram exactly like you posted above.
                            Yes i did post it, but i'm not 100% sure that that is the same system that is in my bike


                            the system i have is OKI MPS-200
                            acording to the PIETCARD homepage
                            Last edited by Guest; 09-09-2014, 02:37 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Mailo

                              #44
                              100_7305.jpg

                              This is the only things in the plate

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                              • tom203
                                Forum Guru
                                Past Site Supporter
                                • Aug 2010
                                • 8925
                                • Norway,Maine

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Mailo
                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]36285[/ATTACH]

                                This is the only things in the plate
                                no "charging" coil (to feed capacitor) there, so check other side where stator is, maybe someone got excessively creative- but this seems unlikely!

                                Edit: tilt bike to right side using block of wood or lean against something strong- very little oil will come out when you take stator cover off.
                                Last edited by tom203; 09-09-2014, 03:44 PM. Reason: Info
                                1981 gs650L

                                "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

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