Solid State Power Box II : Market Research Poll

[posplayr]

POSPLAYR, for me it was not the price, just bad timing, broke my back been out of work 2 yrs now , was looking forward to getting the Original box when i was able to go back to work, and from what i see and read about it you had a lot of work in it and is well worth the 150. you was asking for it , those that bitched about the cost of it did not want it to begin with !!!

You cant get aggravated about what peoples priorities are. It is what it is, and you can't make everybody happy. Anybody that understands the issues, and considers what it would take to improve the electrical situation quickly come to appreciate the SSPB and the price point.

If you don't really understand what the SSPB is and what problems it is addressing, and worse you simply liken the SSPB to inexpensive mass produced, untested chinese electronics you get from ebay, then you just do not see the value.

[posplayr]

The gear has switches and it is extremely unlikely that i would leave anything I am wearing attached and turned on with the bike not running so that might work. I am running LED signals so I guess using that circuit is a possibility as well.




So, do they use the ring connectors or clamp down on the bare wire as I am used to seeing with the screw terminals. I am fine with soldering/crimping/whatever to make quality connections.




I am a consulting engineer myself and believe people should be able to make money with their efforts, whether it is a hobby or not. I hope it works out for you, I appreciate your efforts to help us keep these bikes on the road and modernize the electrics as much as is practical.


Mark

Thanks for the words of support, it is inescapable that part of this is a desire to do something "fun" with motorcycles. I would not considers running a production product line at a loss as "fun", so is where I draw the line from considering this a "labor of love".

The signal circuit with blinkers and brakes on can draw as much as 10 amps when the directional is on. IIRC figure on about 1/8th of that with LEDs. So now you are down to 1.2 amps peak.

Here are some pictures from my ED which has standard signal loads. This is a whole bunch of current, more than even the headlamp which after a spike only pulls 5 amps.

I updated the first post to reflect better how the screw terminals (bare or tinned wire ends) would be oriented/configured.

[posplayr]

Keeping in mind, too, that this forum is hardly your 'target market' if you want to generate actual worthwhile income from your efforts. This is about .5% of your market. You're looking at the whole package, from advertising, to production, to QC, to bookkeeping and dealing with the IRS, to shipping headaches, to customer support.

And when the dust settles, it would be nice if you've earned better than minimum wage for your time... but there's absolutely no guarantee of that.

It's always cheery to consider that I could probably earn more money with fewer headaches by getting a part-time job somewhere delivering mufflers, or something equally inane, where someone else handles the details and I just cash a paycheck.

There's also the chance of cultivating a nice little income generator for yourself. I'd think it's primarily a matter of marketing. But with this particular type of product, I don't think there's much tangible return on your effort in keeping it a small-time operation. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think so.

There is a larger market? That really is the question.

It is easy for me to post here and gather opinions from people that have GS's and that also have other bikes. And it is from people that actually work on their bikes so it is valuable feedback even if it is not across the entire unknown market.

The cost to produce 25 units is much higher than the unit price at even 100-200 units. Because of the very limited demand I did everything in house (other than the PCB fab). When it got down to it , customizing the enclosures, outsourcing heat sinks, having PSBs assembled all were just too cost prohibitive at quality 10-25. And without some idea about saleability, there was no reason to commit thousands of dollars to inventory.

The SSAB is more clear; At $125 would it undercut the PDQ-60 substantially so that in my minds is probably the most viable "product" for me to produce and commit to limited production. They are the first to market to and exploit a market for this type of device. So presumably there is some type of market worth pursuing. Granted that is an assumption.

I have been motivated by some of the volume numbers you mentioned on selling o-ring kits and numbers that Reno bruce mentioned with selling ebay oil pressure gauges. Both are largely by word of mouth and internet sales without a lot of advertising cost except if you consider the ebay/paypal costs as "advertizing".

I have been able to sell a device (the SSPB) in large part on peoples confidence that i will help them through the trauma of tearing apart their electrical system. So the support (read hand holding) goes with the territory and is somewhat enjoyable. On the other hand it doesn't make sense to sell someone something that is more than they will ever use and it is just wasting my time building it. Or building something that from an engineering point of view is "better" where as the commercial alternative is perfectly acceptable. In other words delivering more features than the customer can perceive.

I'm not talking about cutting reliability, that has to stay at the highest level. But if a screw terminal can be substituted for a connector with crimped and soldered ends then that is a viable cost cutting option to consider in a redesign.

[posplayr]

I'm interested, that German product does have some nice add-ons as well. I like the m-Button idea and the LED fading blinkers are cool too. I'm considering tinkering with an Arduino too, there are several Arduino "sketches" out there for sequential blinkers and I'd like to do the Head and brake light modulators as well.

But regardless of whether I get a SSPB II or not (have several project bikes going and need to get an engine pulled, fixed and back in the ladies Honda and my daughters car too and winter is coming) with the help that you've given me on this board, I'll offer to print your labels in full color, UV ink 3M die cut vinyl for FREE.

I'm a digital printer by trade and have some pretty damn good printing and cutting equipment. I realize that the black box you show may just be a mockup, but for instance, I could print and cut to the top inlayed hexagonal shape on durable 3M adhesive vinyl and even cut out holes for the LED or screws if needed. When you get closer to that point, hit me up on PM and we'll figure the details out, but honestly I'm more than willing to help with design, print, cut and shipping a bunch of labels to you for this project.

The Arduino stuff is very nice educational concept, but is hardly anything you would produce a commercial product around. Not saying they are bad, I bought several for use as test equipment, but for a production device, would spin a custom PCB to realize much more efficient packaging.

If I purse these things, I'll remember to drop you a line. I still have several of the decals that I'm putting on the first revision of the SSPB, but things would have to change with a new enclosure.

This is something I was exploring developing; it tries to integrate various functions into a single device all related to visibility.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?219433-Moto-Viz-to-get-more-out-of-your-SSPB&highlight=

[83GS850L]

I still have a bunch of PCB's for the original SSPB, so it is likely I will make some more in the future.

Basically the flexibility of the SSPB Aux channel(#5) adds a lot of extra work in testing, and I'm not sure there was anybody that actually used it. At this point I'm not using it either.

The extra LED and Buzzer are comfort feedback features that don't do a while lot once the device is installed and working.

The 10 pin molex, was being driven by retaining the original GS foot print. I don't think more than 3 of 25 people wanted to take on the job of crimping, although once you have the hang of it it is actually easier to do that way. So as far as dumbing it down; the screw terminals seem to be what all the other higher end fuse box guys are doing. With a solid state solution, all the wires are hidden inside and so that is actually a clean visual appearance once installed.

I was on the XS650 forum, there was surprising little interest. I put some effort into understanding those electrical systems and how to adapt the SSPB. The SSPB II might be better as it is actually a lower profiles.

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33037

This has less to do with labor of love, but rather exploring the possibility of building different specialized electronic products. In addition just being able to produce a electronics circuit design without having to hire it done was something I wanted to try my hand at. So the time in learning the schematics capture and layout tools, updated enginnering on power distribution and protection circuits, all are useful in doing many smaller projects. All these things I view as paying in tuition for continued education.

Yeah, I understand making the unit cheaper to manufacture to tip the scales back into the black.
Like i said at the time i couldnt think of a better word for it than dumbing it down.

From my experience alot of people will not buy an item if they have to put actual thought into installing it, they want a plug and play product. Thats why bolt on parts are so popular.
I also think by your experience trying to feel things out on the XS forum, people dont understand why they would need such a product till they have a problem to solve.
Not that you are a bad salesman, but i just think many dont realize how fragile and possibly unsafe 25-40 year old wiring can be, yet on every forum a large portion of topics are electrical related, no matter if its a simple or complicated problem.

[mmattockx]

The signal circuit with blinkers and brakes on can draw as much as 10 amps when the directional is on. IIRC figure on about 1/8th of that with LEDs. So now you are down to 1.2 amps peak.

10A is a crazy amount of current for a few small bulbs to be lit. Does your 1.2A figure include LED tail/brake light bulbs or just signals?

I updated the first post to reflect better how the screw terminals (bare or tinned wire ends) would be oriented/configured.

That clears it up, thanks.


Mark

[posplayr]

10A is a crazy amount of current for a few small bulbs to be lit. Does your 1.2A figure include LED tail/brake light bulbs or just signals?




That clears it up, thanks.


Mark

signal circuit means the O/g wire fused for 10 a from the fusebox. This plots are actual measurements of a stock set of tail light, Blake light, dash lights , and directionals. So figure the total current drops to 1/8 of what you see.

[scrapper]

should have put this question in. who would buy one if they had the extra money.

[mmattockx]

signal circuit means the O/g wire fused for 10 a from the fusebox. This plots are actual measurements of a stock set of tail light, Blake light, dash lights , and directionals. So figure the total current drops to 1/8 of what you see.

Sorry, I wasn't clear on my question. Is your 1.2A current draw with LED signals and incandescent bulbs everywhere else or do I need to also use LED tail/brake light bulbs as well to get the current draw that low?

And my stupid question for the night - the SSPB II still retains the ignition/headlight/accessory relay functions of the original? Nothing has changed there? That is how I read the OP, but I figured I would ask and be clear on that.


Mark

[posplayr]

Sorry, I wasn't clear on my question. Is your 1.2A current draw with LED signals and incandescent bulbs everywhere else or do I need to also use LED tail/brake light bulbs as well to get the current draw that low?

Mark

The 1.2A is 1/8 of 10 amps. The entire O/G circuit varies but the peak of 10amps can be brought down to 1.2A (i.e. 1/8) if you replace the blinkers, tail light and brake light and the dash lights.

O/G does not include the headlamp; that is on the O/R.

And my stupid question for the night - the SSPB II still retains the ignition/headlight/accessory relay functions of the original? Nothing has changed there? That is how I read the OP, but I figured I would ask and be clear on that.


Mark

Yes electrically each channel is identical either SSBP or SSPB II or SSAB. The Ignition circuit is a little different but the same on both SSPA and SSPB II.
The SSPB II gets rid of the switched Aux so you only have the Unswitched Aux as the original fuse box has. The 5th channel on the SSPB was not something in the OEM designs.

As I mentioned I don't know of anybody that has used this switched AUX ; the most likely thing would be driving lights or heated gear. So it is extra cost complexity and expense that 90% of the people are not using.

[mmattockx]

The entire O/G circuit varies but the peak of 10amps can be brought down to 1.2A (i.e. 1/8) if you replace the blinkers, tail light and brake light and the dash lights.

That is the answer I was looking for.

Yes electrically each channel is identical either SSBP or SSPB II or SSAB.

OK, just wanted to confirm my understanding of that.


Thanks for your patience in answering the dopey questions.


Mark

[posplayr]

That is the answer I was looking for.





OK, just wanted to confirm my understanding of that.


Thanks for your patience in answering the dopey questions.


Mark

From what I have seen on my bike there is very little power draw other than the lights in the O/G Signal circuit. So you just count up the power for each bulb that is on and divide by 14V and you get the amount of total current. Any swap from incandescent to LED figure 1/8 of the current.

[Rob S.]

My two cents on marketing your product:

As far as "dumbing it down", I don't think you could get overly dumb if you're after a mass market. (That is, the dumber the better.)

I haven't yet talked to my mechanic about your product, but his philosophy is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I mostly agree with that, but I have some money, and I like to buy things for my Suzi.

I think your product will provide a connection point for accessories such as heated clothing, grips, sound systems, extra lights, etc., but I don't know for sure. Maybe you could make that clearer to non-mechanics like myself. BTW, none of those accessories interests me, but a radar detector, that's right up my alley.

I think your product will keep the lights turned off until the engine is running, but I'm not sure. Again, maybe you could make that clearer. (That is something that would interest me.)

I think your product(s) have other benefits, but I don't understand them.

I realize this site overwhelmingly consists of technically proficient DIY'ers, so my marketing suggestions might best be applied to other, more mainstream media.

Best of luck.

[posplayr]

My two cents on marketing your product:

As far as "dumbing it down", I don't think you could get overly dumb if you're after a mass market. (That is, the dumber the better.)

I haven't yet talked to my mechanic about your product, but his philosophy is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I mostly agree with that, but I have some money, and I like to buy things for my Suzi.

I think your product will provide a connection point for accessories such as heated clothing, grips, sound systems, extra lights, etc., but I don't know for sure. Maybe you could make that clearer to non-mechanics like myself. BTW, none of those accessories interests me, but a radar detector, that's right up my alley.

I think your product will keep the lights turned off until the engine is running, but I'm not sure. Again, maybe you could make that clearer. (That is something that would interest me.)

I think your product(s) have other benefits, but I don't understand them.

I realize this site overwhelmingly consists of technically proficient DIY'ers, so my marketing suggestions might best be applied to other, more mainstream media.

Best of luck.

Rob,
Much of what you are describing is really an inherent issue with this type of an electrical product. You are just not going to sell it to anyone that doesn't understand how to install it and at l;east has a reasonable understanding of what it does. To a large extent if installation is beyond the scope of the person, then understanding the benefits will be as well.

In the simplest terms all three products are to safe distributed power. You can short out any of the wires and the device just protects itself. It is also optimized to reduce voltage drops and charging issues which are chronic problems with the vast majority of the older bikes.

There is a description of the original SSPB here.

The SSPB II is a slightly simpler and cheaper version of the SSPB but only eliminates the part of the original that few people are using. Both are designed to replace existing fuse box power distributions approaches from the OEM.

The SSAB is designed to enter and existing market for after market device power distributions. Because of the CAN bus on many more modern motorcycle, there has to be an separate power distribution/fuse box to avoid generating CAN bus warnings. The SSAB is about 2/3 the cost for essentially a very similar solid state product. In fact in any respects the SSPB/SSAB is easier to use and more user friendly (no software USB interface and no power resets required).

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?220602-Solid-State-Power-Box-150-plus-shipping

Think of the SSPB II as a direct replacement for ypur existing fuse box. The difference is that you cant short it out and you won't ever have to change a fuse and you will always have more voltage delivered to your electrical components using the SSPB II.

The original SSPB has an extra 10 amp channel for switched accessories in addition to the unswitched channel (just like OEM).

If you need a lot more than that go to a SSJB in addition to the /SSPBSSPB II.

And yes the on board logic will use the stator voltage to determine if the engine is running and light the headlamps once idling (as many of the newer bikes do)

[mmattockx]

posplayr,

Has there been any progress on this? I have replaced the R/R on my 1100E with an SH775 and would like to compliment it with a SSPB II instead of soldiering on with a rattly old fuse box. I am fine with being a beta tester if it gets me set up sooner.


Mark