Rewiring the battery, stator, R/R and grounds

[hannibal]

Yes, SPG R/R refers to the mounting bolt on the R/R. I stole the 9 AWG wire from an amp install kit I had lying around. After considering that the kit is designed for an amp that draws 400+W (almost 35A), I realized the massive wire is indeed overkill. I do not have a Dyna S and would likely only install one if I have ignition issues down the road. I didn't think this would be harmful to the system though. On your recommendation, I will replace the battery to SPG ground with 14AWG wire. I'll also add a 14AWG frame to SPG wire. Is it safe to toss out the engine grounding strap completely? Or should I just run a smaller 14 AWG from engine to frame?

I had a brain fart on the fuse location. If I learned anything from installing an amp or two, it's that the fuse goes as close to the battery as possible.

My thoughts on the engine grounding strap was that it would ground the ignition back to the SPG. Didn't know the OEM ignitor doesn't ground to the engine case. I'm not trying to do anything differently, only complete the SPG mod, make sure the main fuse is correctly wired, and continue thinking about the positive side wiring. The more I think about it, the more I realize I need to create separate fused circuits. So my game plan is to 1) change the battery ground to 14AWG and add a frame to SPG ground, 2) make a 14AWG engine to frame ground if you suggest doing so, 3) install newer blade type fuse holder (near the battery!), 3) correctly charge the new battery, and 4) begin the charging system checks you've documented so well. My final step will be to start at the front of the bike, check and clean all switches and terminal, and create new separately fused circuits.

Question about the diagram above. The BR wire coming off the ignition should go straight to the fuse box without a connection to the R/R again right? And what size fuse should I use on the main fuse (#5)? I've seen 20A and 30A. Is this as simple as adding all the current draws in the system and adding a safety factor (eg. total load=25A so go with a 30A main fuse)?

Not trying to reinvent the wheel!

[posplayr]

Comments inserted below

Yes, SPG R/R refers to the mounting bolt on the R/R. I stole the 9 AWG wire from an amp install kit I had lying around. After considering that the kit is designed for an amp that draws 400+W (almost 35A), I realized the massive wire is indeed overkill. I do not have a Dyna S and would likely only install one if I have ignition issues down the road. I didn't think this would be harmful to the system though. On your recommendation, I will replace the battery to SPG ground with 14AWG wire. I'll also add a 14AWG frame to SPG wire. Is it safe to toss out the engine grounding strap completely? Or should I just run a smaller 14 AWG from engine to frame?

For the SSPB I make a little SPG harness like in the picture below. I bring together a battery, frame and R/R(-) ground wire into a single ring lug. As I recall, I can just get a 14 awg for the R/R(-) along with 16 awg for the other two wires all to fit inside of a 10-12 AWG crimp. The 10-12 AWG ring lug then becomes the SPG and it can be put anywhere even floating. The frame and battery wires have 6mm ring lugs (16 awg wires) and the final 14 awg is soldered into whatever is coming out of the R/R(-). For a compufire I put a ring lug on it and screw it into the case as that is how they are grounded. When you bolt down the SPG I just stack my B/W ring lug from the harness on top. You can make stuff bigger but based on my calculations and going no more tha n1 ft length on any of these you will have low voltage drops. Crimp and sparingly solder all ends.

There is a summary of calculations here; they are for the SSPB but that grounds would apply to your case if you follow the SPG guidelines.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?216224-Solid-State-Power-Box-STANDARD-INSTALLATION&p=1965992#post1965992

I had a brain fart on the fuse location. If I learned anything from installing an amp or two, it's that the fuse goes as close to the battery as possible.

Yes

My thoughts on the engine grounding strap was that it would ground the ignition back to the SPG.

We are really "gilding the lily". For the amount of potential benefit, I would be much more concerned with giving the potential for giving the starter current a new return path. So no dont do it. If you were really worried about it and you did a Dyna S ,it would be better to run a ground direct from the Dyna S back to the SPG rather than trying to modify the frame to engine current flow. Unless someone throws an accessory on or does the Dyna S most all other return currents run through the B/W. That was part of the issue and why adding the extra battery strap ground relieves the B/W and makes the R/R and battery tied closer together. The Frame ground is just an "in case someone" adds more accessories with frame ground returns.

Didn't know the OEM ignitor doesn't ground to the engine case. I'm not trying to do anything differently, only complete the SPG mod, make sure the main fuse is correctly wired, and continue thinking about the positive side wiring. The more I think about it, the more I realize I need to create separate fused circuits.

Separate 10 amp circuits is a very good idea

So my game plan is to 1) change the battery ground to 14AWG and add a frame to SPG ground, 2) make a 14AWG engine to frame ground if you suggest doing so, 3) install newer blade type fuse holder (near the battery!), 3) correctly charge the new battery, and 4) begin the charging system checks you've documented so well. My final step will be to start at the front of the bike, check and clean all switches and terminal, and create new separately fused circuits.

Good, but don't do 2.)

Question about the diagram above. The BR wire coming off the ignition should go straight to the fuse box without a connection to the R/R again right? And what size fuse should I use on the main fuse (#5)? I've seen 20A and 30A. Is this as simple as adding all the current draws in the system and adding a safety factor (eg. total load=25A so go with a 30A main fuse)?

The BR is for R/R's with sense wires. If you use the SH-775 you can ignore it. The Honda is the only one I would even consider that has the sense wire.

You only need a 15 amp main fuse for the battery.

Not trying to reinvent the wheel!

[hannibal]

Thanks for the reply and the link. I now understand why the R/R ground should be the largest wire at the SPG. I've ordered 16AWG wire for my battery and frame ground. Again, still hesitant to cut the ring lug off my short R/R ground so i'll stack the battery/frame grounds, then the R/R ground, and then the B/W ground with dielectric grease in between.

Time has provided more clarity and I've concluded that if I must do this, I have to do it right. I'm using crimp on terminals but I plant o solder and shrink warp the terminals. What's the correct way to make these connections? Should I crimp, solder, and wrap, or solder the bare wire, crimp, then wrap?

Thanks for the clarification on the R/R sense wire. My goal is to rewire with the OEM equipment to get to a functional state. Then I can perform the tests and tackle whatever's bad. If I need a new R/R, my current choice would be the SH-775 and I would definitely integrate the R/R negative with the battery/frame ground ring lug. I've had to pause to order some tools and supplies so I'll spend the rest of the week thinking about how to fuse the positive side. I'm looking at how Suzuki did the 3 circuit set up in the later bikes. I'm pretty sure this will require me to open up most of the existing harness. And I'm really scared of the wiring on the handlebars. I unscrewed them switches to look inside and they were full of cobwebs and random debris. Hoping I can clean them without breaking any connections. But i guess that's what a soldering iron is for.

Thanks again!

[Grimly]

What's the correct way to make these connections? Should I crimp, solder, and wrap, or solder the bare wire, crimp, then wrap?

If you must crimp AND solder, then crimp first, and be careful the solder doesn't wick up the strands, else vibration will just crack it later.
If you solder first, the solder will creep out from under the crimp later on, leaving a slack and heating-up connection.

[posplayr]

If you must crimp AND solder, then crimp first, and be careful the solder doesn't wick up the strands, else vibration will just crack it later.
If you solder first, the solder will creep out from under the crimp later on, leaving a slack and heating-up connection.

Never occurred to me to solder then crimp LOL. but yes be very sparing with the solder. I use a little clip on the insulation crimp to pull away heat and help keep the solder from wicking up the wire as much as it pulls heat creating a heat dam. I leave some extra length on the conductor so it extends further out onto the ring lug or spade. Heat the connector there and flow just enough to insure good electrical contact. Use flux if the wire is dirty.

I guess pictures would be good, but the only examples I have at the moment are of very small molex pins.

[posplayr]

I'm looking at how Suzuki did the 3 circuit set up in the later bikes. I'm pretty sure this will require me to open up most of the existing harness. And I'm really scared of the wiring on the handlebars. I unscrewed them switches to look inside and they were full of cobwebs and random debris. Hoping I can clean them without breaking any connections. But i guess that's what a soldering iron is for.

Thanks again!

If you look here you will see how to take a 550 and separate out the circuits. It is really not too bad. This is standard install for a non fuse box biek where the SSPB is installed.

This is a preliminary markup of a 1977 GS550 schematic and represents what is involved with converting your single fuse bike to use the SSPB.
SSPB Install for 1977 GS550

Is the other link doesn't work try this one.

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/6791183/sspb-install-1977-gs550-pdf-1-0-meg?da=y

[hannibal]

Link requires login. I tried right click, save as. I'm pretty sure I've clicked on that link over in your SSPB thread. Would love to see that diagram.

[posplayr]

Link requires login. I tried right click, save as. I'm pretty sure I've clicked on that link over in your SSPB thread. Would love to see that diagram.

email me at solidstatepowerbox@gmail and I'll send it.

[hannibal]

Sent. Thanks!

[hannibal]

Thanks! Lotsa info in that diagram. Give me some time to digest it.

[londonboards]

Just remember dialectic grease is an insulator not a conductor. Put it on terminals AFTER they are connected. Do not put on connecting surfaces.

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-dielectric-grease.htm

[posplayr]

Just remember dialectic grease is an insulator not a conductor. Put it on terminals AFTER they are connected. Do not put on connecting surfaces.

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-dielectric-grease.htm

Generally the grease is displaced under normal pressure of electrical contacts. That is the reason why it is a bit of a surprise that it is non conductive. So normally you can just push it into the end of a connector and then push the connector together without issue. Have have done this plenty, in fact it would be kind of worthless if you had to apply it after making sure you have clean dry contacts. How would you ever re-attach a connector after having dialectic grate applied if you have to only apply after contact is made. You would have to fully clean then connect then reapply . This is generally never necessary.

The main problem I see with it is you will have difficulty getting into crimps (where as DeOxit will flow very well), so DG would best be used on battery terminals and large flat ring lugs or perhaps inside switches.

[hannibal]

Just picked up some deoxit. I have dielectric grease at home. I was planning to clean the switches and multi pin connectors with deoxit and replace all bullet connectors with m/f spade connectors (crimped then soldered then grease then heat shrink). Good plan?

Is deoxit more than a cleaner? Should it be left on the connector or switch?

[hannibal]

Jim, where do you put your clamp to pull away heat, towards the wire side of the crimp?

[posplayr]

Jim, where do you put your clamp to pull away heat, towards the wire side of the crimp?

On the portion of the crimp that squeezes the insulation. It help to avoid melting the insulation as well.