gs starter motor trouble shooting

[Guest]

ive taken apart my starter motor and the brushes look fine, the commutators look fine. everything looks good except i have this strange split in the armature stack. one side of the stack, the plates look smooth, one piece. on the other side the plates have ridges and resemble a stack of staples. the split is somewhat uniform but the gap gets wider on the side where the plates have ridges. on the smooth side the split is barely noticeable. my starter works it just is very slow and struggles to turn the motor. the battery is good and leads are good. what is this split? how do i test these parts ? im having a hard time uploading photos on my phone but ill get some up later

[chanceafrica]

image.jpghow do i post a video not from the internet?

[tom203]

"my starter works it just is very slow and struggles to turn the motor"

If you're sure about "battery is good" , you likely have an armature that might be damaged, maybe shorted internally so it doesn't get up to speed. Does it get to speed when you hand hold it and power it?

Starter motors are cheap on ebay or get a rebuilt one for maybe $150

[chanceafrica]

i took it to an auto a starter rebuild shop, and they suggested the armature shaft was slightly bent or that it wasnt spinning straight , then check out the field plates and said " look see those slightly shiny parts? thats where your core is rubbing" then he placed the shaft into the bushing and there was some play, he said "there it is, that should be a snug fit. a rubbing core will reduce its power up to 50%". so, does anybody know where i can buy just the bushings? im not trying to be cheap, i just dont want to be wasteful, the brushes and commutators looks new.

[tom203]

A bearing supply house should be able to get you a bushing (or a machine shop could make one)or just get a kit like this somewhere.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-REPAIR-REBUILD-KIT-Suzuki-GS1000-GS1100-GS400-GS425-GS550-GS750-GS850-/330790173735?hash=item4d04a17c27:g:VkEAAOSw8d9Uv7ev&vxp=mtr

but, your armature is damaged, probably overheated during its struggles- I'd have little faith in it

[argonsagas]

A bearing supply house should be able to get you a bushing (or a machine shop could make one)or just get a kit like this somewhere.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-REPAIR-REBUILD-KIT-Suzuki-GS1000-GS1100-GS400-GS425-GS550-GS750-GS850-/330790173735?hash=item4d04a17c27:g:VkEAAOSw8d9Uv7ev&vxp=mtr

but, your armature is damaged, probably overheated during its struggles- I'd have little faith in it

On first reading the description of the irregularities, my thoughts were that the armature shaft is bent.

This condition cannot be repaired.

If a shaft is bent and continues to be used the vibration and uneven loading will inevitably damage bearings and brushes, as you have seen. How much it is bent will affect the rate of decline of the starter, but it will eventually fail.


Excepting for dealing with a shop that specializes in these things, and may have the needed parts on hand, looking for a used replacement armature and bearings is a waste of time and money. Just replace the starter whether used or buy a rebuilt one from a shop that gives a guarantee.

[tkent02]

Can't imagine wasting any effort on this when used starters are so cheap. Which engine is it anyway?

[chanceafrica]

i dont think the armature is damaged, there is a split but its still functioning and there is no resistance among the plates. the issue is either a bent shaft wore out the bushing or it just has a worn bushing. the point of "all this trouble" is, to have an understanding of how all this works, and fixing parts vs replacing them. the oem equipment( in good shape) will be much higher quality than replacement parts. all my parts look good and new, except the bushing and the slight split. the slight split however MIGHT unbalance the core. im not trying to be cheap. i want to understand and fix vs, blindly throwing money at it. thanks for your responses

[argonsagas]

The shaft is not turning true.....whether it is bent or the split has made the armature unbalanced gives the same result of incessant vibration and wear, which will inevitably and rapidly damage bearings and brushes/

It IS damaged.. .

Admittedly, if you throw enough time and energy at it, and you had both the necessary equipment and expertise to repair the armature, you might be able to improve it slightly, but the fact that you are asking for advice means expertise is lacking and given your description of the armature, plus the reality that replacement is not expensive, you are wasting your time and money with it.

The notion of repair is just that. Replace it and enjoy riding the bike. .

[chanceafrica]

or the just bushing is worn. also 150$ aint exactly cheap.

The shaft is not turning true.....whether it is bent or the split has made the armature unbalanced gives the same result of incessant vibration and wear, which will inevitably and rapidly damage bearings and brushes/

It IS damaged.. .

Admittedly, if you throw enough time and energy at it, and you had both the necessary equipment and expertise to repair the armature, you might be able to improve it slightly, but the fact that you are asking for advice means expertise is lacking and given your description of the armature, plus the reality that replacement is not expensive, you are wasting your time and money with it.

The notion of repair is just that. Replace it and enjoy riding the bike. .

[gearhead13]

Put the armature ends on V blocks and put a dial indicator on the middle. If its bent then thats why your bushings are toast.

[argonsagas]

or the just bushing is worn. also 150$ aint exactly cheap.

A ---Starters do not have to cost $150 They can be had for considerably less.

B --- The wear on the bearings has to be elliptical, just as the wear on the armature is elliptical.
Wear on bearings is normal, and wear on the armature is also normal but the wear pattern that leads to the armature damage you described is not normal. It says the movement that causes the wear is elliptical.

Normal movement of the armature can cause additional wear in the bearings, and some fluctuation during rotation, but it tends to be even wear.

Bearings do NOT wear elliptically without reason.

You either have armature sections that separated and expanded, and created an imbalance, or you may have a bent armature shaft. Of course, you could have both.

In any case repair will likely cost more than the value of a replacement starter and you cannot be sure if the repair you do for yourself will be sufficient or just an expense that need not have been taken on. and you will still need to look for a replacement.



Your rejection of advice make it appear you came into a help forum where you want only to argue with whomever offers you their knowledge and experience and what you really intend is to do things your way no matter what anyone else says.


I won't speak for others, but I dislike wasting my time giving solid advice based on much experience to someone who never actually wanted any valid advice, but was only looking for support for a faulty idea that will be followed no matter what advice is given.

[tkent02]

And to think I just threw away a box of starters because they never break. Who knew.

[chanceafrica]

im not arguing or rejecting advice, my inquisitions are merely thought prodding, to open discussion. tone is lost through text and i dont mean to sound unappreciative or denouncing. my way of asking questions are to question the answers. dial indicator will tell the tale surely. thanks.

[chanceafrica]

the new replacment starters ive seen are 150$ where else should i be looking?