Motorcycle shop rant and r/r and stator wiring quick questions.

[Deuce]

First, let me rant about the non-dealer shops near me. There is one that I like to go to as I like the guy that runs it, and he seems knowledgeable, but damn! He's never there! He'll also tell me he's open on a particular Saturday, then when I go by, he's closed. I went by earlier to pick his brain about the r/r and stator wiring. He wasn't there, but an assistant was. He asked if the battery was good, and I said I wasn't sure (didn't bring it with me) so I asked if he would be there as I would run home and get it (about a half hour home and back.) He said "oh sure, I'll be here." I get there, and he's running errands! I waited for an hour and a half, he never showed. So I grab the battery and go to the Suzuki dealer to have it checked. All's good. I'm ****ed that I waited an hour and a half for him to return, but that's my fault. I like little shops and would rather give them business over a dealership

Another shop I go to has a knowledgeable owner, but he's not there half the time! His assistant doesn't speak English, so I can't communicate with him.

I have printed the Stator Papers and will go out and check the system tomorrow. I know I read somewhere that you can connect the stator directly to the R/R wires. My question being...what about the wires that the stator originally connects to? Do you just leave them? Also, I read about connecting the positive from the R/R directly to the battery. What about where it normally connects? Will that affect anything? If I can connect it to the battery positive, should I use a 20 amp fuse or ?

I replaced the stator and R/R a few months ago. Is one or the other bad? I don't know till I check, but I can't ride anywhere that the rpm's will get over 4 grand for any length of time. I did it yesterday, and the bike almost died at a stop light. When I got home, it wouldn't start and oil had started dripping from somewhere. I'm assuming it belched it out due to running horribly.

When I did the initial battery tests, these were the results:

Key Off - 13.7 volts (just charged the battery)
Key On - 12.28 volts
Idle - 12.34 volts
2500 rpm - 12.33 volts
5000 rpm - 12.32 volts
Key Off - 12.75 volts

[Crankthat]

Problem with a mom and pop store and the guy is never there?
Probably out riding.
I would be if I thought I could.

[Nessism]

Have you checked the charging system output?

EDIT: post above edited to add system info. This info was not available when I wrote my question.

[hillsy]

Having worked in a small shop myself, it can be pretty annoying when guys come around and try and get you to tell them how to fix their bike so they can go home and do the job themselves. Just sayin....

Anyway, you need to check the wires on the stator have no continuity to ground (or each other). Then do the no load AC voltage test on the stator. You should be seeing around 70-80v AC from each of the 3 wires at around 5K rpm. This is in the manual (and it will have the correct voltage to look for).

If that checks out, then test the R/R....if that checks out then check the wiring / grounding.

[Redman]

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When I did the initial battery tests, these were the results:

Key Off - 13.7 volts (just charged the battery)
Key On - 12.28 volts
Idle - 12.34 volts
2500 rpm - 12.33 volts
5000 rpm - 12.32 volts
Key Off - 12.75 volts

Not charging. Need to do the other test in the Stator papers.


About "connecting the stator directly to the RR:
Tow of the three leads will be already. May only be one lead that goes elsewhere (up thru wiring harness, to headlight bucket were used to be connection to headlight swiitch, and then back to RR), yes, just connect the stator lead to the R/R and leave other unplugged.

About "connecting RR output direct to battery".: Doing this is just to avoid a possible minor problem, not at all the solution to your problem, so don't bother now.

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[allojohn]

Jim put a lot of time into this, you should read what he says about stators.

[Deuce]

"Problem with a mom and pop store and the guy is never there?
Probably out riding."

Owner was out sick. Assistant at tax office, I was told.

"Have you checked the charging system output?"

Not being real bright regarding electrical issues, I thought checking the battery voltage at various stages was checking output?

"Having worked in a small shop myself, it can be pretty annoying when guys come around and try and get you to tell them how to fix their bike so they can go home and do the job themselves. Just sayin...."

Had the owner been there and given me a good price to fix it, it wouldn't have been free advice. I'll check out the rest that you suggested.

"About "connecting the stator directly to the RR:
Tow of the three leads will be already. May only be one lead that goes elsewhere (up thru wiring harness, to headlight bucket were used to be connection to headlight swiitch, and then back to RR), yes, just connect the stator lead to the R/R and leave other unplugged."

All stator wires connect to main harness, as does the R/R.

"Jim put a lot of time into this, you should read what he says about stators."

I have read most of these till I'm blue in the face. I'll say again, I'm "wiring challenged."

I've stated what I'm doing tomorrow, I just want to try to get all this done once and for all. Not fun when you can't ride more than 30 minutes or so.

[posplayr]

When I did the initial battery tests, these were the results:

Key Off - 13.7 volts (just charged the battery)
Key On - 12.28 volts
Idle - 12.34 volts
2500 rpm - 12.33 volts
5000 rpm - 12.32 volts
Key Off - 12.75 volts

This is not only a battery test but an integrated charging system test. The measurements in red indicate that your system has ZERO charging output. That is indicative of a bad stator. You should proceed to the Revised Phase B stator tests and make sure, before you are done, to do the Leg to Ground tests at 5K RPM.

If you are electrically challenged(and you know the statro is plugged in), just charge the stator there is a 90-95% probability it is toast.

Directions are in my signature under GS Charging health.

And here are some updates with background to the Phase B tests that focus on the stator alone.

A revised test is at this link; The actual test is on Page 6 of 9. We added the leg to ground AC voltage test as this helps isolate insulation breakdowns to ground using the relatively high 60-80 VAC stator voltage when it is open loop.

Link to Revised PHASE B of Stator Pages with discussion of testing methods:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3977...4-pm-649k?da=y

[Buffalo Bill]

What posplayr said is enough.
Taking the side cover off, changing the stator and connecting it up right, the only problem I had was the new stator had all yellow wires, and that puzzled me. Seems they're all yellow because they output the same V so just connect them.
Putting the side cover back on with a new gasket, all the surfaces need to be clean and the bolts torqued. Mine has a stripped out bolt hole, (for years) so I just ordered a Helicoil thread repair kit for 6mm.

[Deuce]

This is not only a battery test but an integrated charging system test. The measurements in red indicate that your system has ZERO charging output. That is indicative of a bad stator. You should proceed to the Revised Phase B stator tests and make sure, before you are done, to do the Leg to Ground tests at 5K RPM.

If you are electrically challenged(and you know the statro is plugged in), just charge the stator there is a 90-95% probability it is toast.

Directions are in my signature under GS Charging health.

Thank you! That's easy enough to understand. It's was a new Caltric stator I put in about 5 months ago. I will double check the connectors before I go any further. Like I mentioned, I printed the Stator Papers (my stupid laptop is hard to see in the sun) so I'll go from there.

[Nessism]

"Have you checked the charging system output?"

Not being real bright regarding electrical issues, I thought checking the battery voltage at various stages was checking output?



"About "connecting the stator directly to the RR:
Tow of the three leads will be already. May only be one lead that goes elsewhere (up thru wiring harness, to headlight bucket were used to be connection to headlight swiitch, and then back to RR), yes, just connect the stator lead to the R/R and leave other unplugged."

All stator wires connect to main harness, as does the R/R.

At the time that I posted the question about system performance there were no voltages in your post. I see you edited your post to add them though which is good.

Big red flag where you state you plugged your stator and R/R into the main harness. As has been reiterated countless times here it's critical to wire the stator directly into the R/R bypassing the main harness. It's also imperative to wire the R/R assuring a proper ground. The factory grounds are REAL POOR. The R/R power output can go into the main harness, since it feeds directly into the fuse block, but you should check for voltage loss in that circuit per the stator papers.

Bottom line is that some or all of the problems you mention may be related to the wiring. I'd clean that up and retest before assuming too much about the system performance.

[posplayr]

Thank you! That's easy enough to understand. It's was a new Caltric stator I put in about 5 months ago. I will double check the connectors before I go any further. Like I mentioned, I printed the Stator Papers (my stupid laptop is hard to see in the sun) so I'll go from there.

I don't want to give you a false sense of confidence, simply get you moving forward. As Ed mentioned there are several things that are essentially mandatory if you want trouble free charging. It is most all detailed in GS Charging Health. If you can't follow it get someone to do it for you.

[Deuce]

I did Posplayr's check, and no joy! I got .5 ohms the first test, then .3 then second, when it should be 0 or OL. Then I did the first one again and it dropped to .3 ohms. Just for grins, I connected the stator to the R/R and started it, no change from before hand, so I'm going to get yet another stator and put it in. Caltric only warranties their stators for 2 months, so they won't do anything (even though it's only got 300 miles on it.) I don't think it "fried" I just don't think it worked from the get-go, so hoping it didn't do anything to R/R.

Thanks for those that didn't jump down my throat. I appreciate that.

[Nessism]

I did Posplayr's check, and no joy! I got .5 ohms the first test, then .3 then second, when it should be 0 or OL. Then I did the first one again and it dropped to .3 ohms. Just for grins, I connected the stator to the R/R and started it, no change from before hand, so I'm going to get yet another stator and put it in. Caltric only warranties their stators for 2 months, so they won't do anything (even though it's only got 300 miles on it.) I don't think it "fried" I just don't think it worked from the get-go, so hoping it didn't do anything to R/R.

Thanks for those that didn't jump down my throat. I appreciate that.

Did you verify the R/R ground is going to a good frame point or the battery post?

[posplayr]

I did Posplayr's check, and no joy! I got .5 ohms the first test, then .3 then second, when it should be 0 or OL. Then I did the first one again and it dropped to .3 ohms. Just for grins, I connected the stator to the R/R and started it, no change from before hand, so I'm going to get yet another stator and put it in. Caltric only warranties their stators for 2 months, so they won't do anything (even though it's only got 300 miles on it.) I don't think it "fried" I just don't think it worked from the get-go, so hoping it didn't do anything to R/R.

Thanks for those that didn't jump down my throat. I appreciate that.

Using an ohm meter is about the worst thing you can do. That is detailed in the Revised Phase B tests description. Repeating myself, Leg to Ground at 5K RPM is the best test but you should also do leg to leg at 5K as well.