Dyna S install AFTER the coil relay mod.

[OldVet66]

87 feeds both coils and the Dyna-S. That's why they provide such a long wire from the Dyna-S, so it will reach the coil feed. The highlighted portion of your diagram is wrong where you show 86 feeding the Dyna-S at the splice. The O/W wire from the kill switch in the original wiring comes directly from the kill switch and splits into two wires, one for each coil. That is usually where you cut the O/W wire and divert it to terminal 86 from the kill switch so it actuates the relay with the kill switch and you re-feed the coil side of the O/W wire before the split with 87. Your diagram and picture of the relay show two terminals for 87. Electrically they are the same terminal. 86 closes the relay and 87 runs +12V directly from the battery to the coils and the Dyna-S. The whole point of the mod is to bypass any possible voltage drop in the ignition circuit and provide +12V to the Dyna-S and coils. If there is a voltage drop from the kill switch to terminal 86 it won't matter any more because that reduced voltage is more than enough to close the relay and give you direct battery voltage to the important parts of the ignition system.

[Planetsmasher]

Thanks Vet, that's easy to understand!

[posplayr]

Thanks Vet, that's easy to understand!

Sorry for confusing the situation; I guess harness surgery is not for everyone. What I described avoided hacking the harness which is what you would be doing running the dyna wires to the coils.

[OldVet66]

Hopefully knowing how it works will open other avenues of thought. once known and a schematic, there are definitely other ways to do the job. I was always taught to simplify the diagrams. I have come to the conclusion that you think in a magnitude above us mere mortals Jim. I'm getting older and have forgotten what was once stamped in my brain so going back to the basics always helps keep me from getting lost as you will probably live to regret when I get to installing my SSPB. I have decided that it needs to go on the back of the electrics plate so I'm in the process of cutting out my old air box to accommodate it and glass it back in so I can keep my air box tool box. I have a lot of polishing and harness connectors to replace so it might be close to winter before I do it, Then the questions will come no doubt. I also made a set of jumpers so the harness could be put back together at the relay if it ever failed on a trip and I didn't have a replacement on board.

[posplayr]

Hopefully knowing how it works will open other avenues of thought. once known and a schematic, there are definitely other ways to do the job. I was always taught to simplify the diagrams. I have come to the conclusion that you think in a magnitude above us mere mortals Jim. I'm getting older and have forgotten what was once stamped in my brain so going back to the basics always helps keep me from getting lost as you will probably live to regret when I get to installing my SSPB. I have decided that it needs to go on the back of the electrics plate so I'm in the process of cutting out my old air box to accommodate it and glass it back in so I can keep my air box tool box. I have a lot of polishing and harness connectors to replace so it might be close to winter before I do it, Then the questions will come no doubt.

I think you are very correct! Despite my attempts at describing something as the absolute minimum, absolute simplest, and absolutely easiest to understand schematic, the result is often confusion and a general shut down in the ability to think. Just look at some of some of Planetsmasher's questions about relay pin connections. There is a clearly labeled and color coded relay in the schematic posted 6 years ago but he was unable to translate that to his schematic with the same relay pin numbering on the Dyna S schematic! I'm ignoring teh fact I even told him teh same by PM in words.

Granted my schematic is more complex but that is because it shows "where" to place the cut and jumper on your GS harness(to minimize cuts and wires), while adding both in the DynaS schematic as well as the Relay mod schematic all in one. It took me about 5 minutes to think about and in fact I did need to draw the schematic to resolve it in my mind, but it is really not "that complicated" or is it?. Certainly no so complicated that a person can not find the relay and pinout for the relay. But apparently it really is .

I see this often, people see a degree of complexity that they can not immediately absorb and the brains go into shut down mode. As an EE, I use the language of schematics so I often do not realize how even simple schematics can elicit this shutdown behavior.

I work on much more complicated stuff than this, and I really do attempt to make it as simple as possible. More and more I'm realizing it is a losing proposition. I understand now when somebody posted about "dumbing down" products; I now know what they mean.

[posplayr]

Ironically, I'm just realizing that I have been on the other side of the fence.

As a systems engineer(designing complex aerospace military system NOT network system administrator/management), I have been in a situation of having to try and define system level requirements which are to be implemented in software. Invariably we end up in a strained dialog with software where I often come away with the feeling that the software people just have a different way of thinking. When left to their own devices where they can organize a system as they would see as a logical way of doing things, it invariably is upside down from what would make sense to a "real engineer" .

In the last year I have been doing a lot of software work and in just the last few months really digging down into the nitty gritty of C++ virtual functions and abstract classes as I have been in the process of refactoring a large legacy "C" code base. I was shocked the other day when I was reading a description of a software standard on DSS that was produced by the OMG that I could actually understand it . It was in SW speak and i could understand . I guess up until that time I would have read something like this and my eyes would have just glazed over .

In my defence there was nobody sitting there to handhold me and explain the SW speak as my eyes glazed.

[OldVet66]

I wouldn't worry about it Jim, without your expertise important things like the Series R/R, single point ground and SSPB would never have been accepted. I know enough to know when someone is talking from knowledge or EGO and why a lot of what you have said has been challenged by the ego crowd. Keep on keeping on. I realized from Planetsmasher's questions that he wasn't real comfortable with the explanations and that a cut and dried simplification might be in order. If you ever feel like like I'm jumping on your posts, PM me and tell me to shut up.

[posplayr]

I wouldn't worry about it Jim, without your expertise important things like the Series R/R, single point ground and SSPB would never have been accepted. I know enough to know when someone is talking from knowledge or EGO and why a lot of what you have said has been challenged by the ego crowd. Keep on keeping on. I realized from Planetsmasher's questions that he wasn't real comfortable with the explanations and that a cut and dried simplification might be in order. If you ever feel like like I'm jumping on your posts, PM me and tell me to shut up.

Not at all and perhaps I'm being defensive, but my comments are simply to point out a distinction in approaches. The direct approach is to just cut into the harness at the coils and run additional wires to do that. The approach I demonstrated added zero wires and just made surgical cuts to the harness. Electrically they are the same.

[OldVet66]

My hope was that he would put two and two together understanding how the mod was designed to work. I got a feeling he didn't totally understand the mod itself with his questions.

[posplayr]

My hope was that he would put two and two together understanding how the mod was designed to work. I got a feeling he didn't totally understand the mod itself with his questions.

Well this is one of those threads I should generally just ignore, except the OP PMed me to help him after his posts went unanswered for 3 hours.

[Planetsmasher]

Pos, I am sorry that you're taking it personally. You really shouldn't. I have no doubt that your schematic is clear to the vast majority of people reading these posts, and that they get it quickly and completely. The work that you put into the write up is commendable. It just doesn't work for me and that's ok. I ended up making assumptions about the drawing and asking question that you clearly felt need not be asked if I would only re- examine the schematic. I suppose I'm more of a verbal guy and when you give me the short answers and refer me back to you schematic, I know it's not happening. Vet just had a more intuitive sense of what I was trying to find out. He ascertained for instance that the double 87 on the relay might confuse me in light of the single one. (It was in fact on my mind). It's no biggie Pos, everyone has their strong suit. Your work has helped countless members, and I salute you for it despite my failure to make use of it. Thanks again and have a great day!

[OldVet66]

I can understand that Jim with another riding season just around the corner or upon us depending on where you live. Three hours can be a long time. Planetsmasher, interesting handle, do you realize there is already rail gun technology in use today. Interesting how science fiction seems to come true.

[posplayr]

Pos, I am sorry that you're taking it personally. You really shouldn't. I have no doubt that your schematic is clear to the vast majority of people reading these posts, and that they get it quickly and completely. The work that you put into the write up is commendable. It just doesn't work for me and that's ok. I ended up making assumptions about the drawing and asking question that you clearly felt need not be asked if I would only re- examine the schematic. I suppose I'm more of a verbal guy and when you give me the short answers and refer me back to you schematic, I know it's not happening. Vet just had a more intuitive sense of what I was trying to find out. He ascertained for instance that the double 87 on the relay might confuse me in light of the single one. (It was in fact on my mind). It's no biggie Pos, everyone has their strong suit. Your work has helped countless members, and I salute you for it despite my failure to make use of it. Thanks again and have a great day!

There are no hard feeling, just lamenting the fact that the interchange is less than optimal. I try to answer "questions", but not statements of "confusion", the later of which I can only respond by saying to refer to the schematic. If I sense you are trying to ask a question whether it comes out or not I try to answer that specific question. But the bottomline is if there is not some clear question I can not further elaborate to clear anything up. That is where I'm glad Oldvet stepped in because I just don't get what you don't get which he did.

Also realize there are many forum on the internet that are much more formal in terms of rules(software/technology oriented ones especially), that don't just allow any question to be asked. Moderators actually check for quality of questions and how appropriate they are so improve the readability of the threads that get created for other readers. I'm not saying I'm trying to bring those disciplines here, but some of my response is probably shaped by those experiences.

There are other people, that PM me for special attention if they feel their questions are not being answered in the open forum. As a general rule I don't want to answer questions by PM because then it is solely for that one person's benefit and none else. Some of these people are doing or are thinking about doing an SSPB so I try to answer their questions even when it has little if anything to do with the SSPB.

The point of the diatribe is that well formulated and clear question are a responsibility of the poster to improve the quality of the answer and the GSR in general. Being sloppy only serves to clutter up the forum even more.

[Planetsmasher]

Well this is one of those threads I should generally just ignore, except the OP PMed me to help him after his posts went unanswered for 3 hours.

indeed, you could have ignored it and me altogether. I think I may prefer you'd done that rather than get insulting. There are other members with feedback that illuminated things immediately.

[posplayr]

indeed, you could have ignored it and me altogether. I think I may prefer you'd done that rather than get insulting. There are other members with feedback that illuminated things immediately.

Boy you must really think you own the keys to the GSR castle?? Now you resent what you think is insulting behavior after you make a private request for personal service? I don't know if it takes all kinds but there are certainly all kinds. If you are trying to **** me off you are getting close except i have too much to do that pummel you with insults.