SH 775 issue...again

[posplayr]

Posplayr, do you have a handy picture you could point me to showing exactly where to connect all wires? Is the ground wire I currently have coming from the mounting screw of the R/R supposed to be connected to the black wire coming from the harness? Should there be a T-connection there that also goes to the frame? Thanks

The SPG is a current collection point before you return to R/R(-). ALL CURRENT RETURNS TO R/R(-)just as ALL CURRENT LEAVES R/R(+). Just follow the diagram using the mounting screw as a SPG collection point.


This is from the GS Charging Health thread. You are correct that all of the harness return current needs to go right to the R/R(-) as you are doing. But it is the battery charging currents are so much more important as voltage drops between battery and R/R case drops is charging voltage from the R/R setpoint.

Last weekend after seeing increasing suggestions that "grounds do not matter"; "just wire the R/R(-) to the battery" , I did a more detailed graphical analysis of each step in adding SPG wires from the basic stock configurations to the suggested configuration to show the impact. I has never done that before although I had done most of the analysis in my head already. Following doing that my "intellectual gut feelings" were confirmed and what is shown is essentially nessesary as a "one size fits all" solution to grounding. In other words follow the advice and you will not go wrong.

If you have a 6 wire the same applies, you are just going to have to find a low impedance switched power source. You can do a search, but a coil mod relay provides about the best option. Otherwise hook it right to the battery and make sure to not let the GS set for long periods of days
Here is a simplified diagram showing the connections for a 6 wire R/R. Just omit the Brown wire for a 5 wire R/R. The R/R has doubled up wires for both (+) and (-) so it is actually an 8 wire as shown.
NOTE IN LEGEND BELOW ASSUME THE MAIN FUSE 30 A IS ONLY 15 Amps as per stock GS. SORRY WAS OVERSIGHT AS NOT MY ARTWORK

STEP #2.) GOOD R/R GROUNDS Make sure that the R/R(-) is properly grounded to: harness,battery,frame.
I have described a single point grounding approach that minimizes the amount of current that flows between the battery (-) and the R/R (-) connections. By doing that there is less susceptibility to resistance due to bad connections and corrosion and the R/R should charge the battery more accurately.

While there a different ways to implement the R/R grounding scheme, the way Suzuki originally implemented the GS electrical charging systems is confused, inconsistent and not ideal in any sense of the word. I provided the theory of why the one below is best, I will not rehash that here. Just follow the directions below:

[Nessism]

Posplayr, do you have a handy picture you could point me to showing exactly where to connect all wires? Is the ground wire I currently have coming from the mounting screw of the R/R supposed to be connected to the black wire coming from the harness? Should there be a T-connection there that also goes to the frame? Thanks

SPG fine and dandy.

Simple answer: run the black ground wire from the R/R over to the battery. If you run it to a secondary location, make sure that spot has a direct line to the battery. If it doesn't, add one.

[ddaniels]

Thanks very much. So, does this picture represent what I should be doing? Please disregard that the picture does not show anything connected to the positive post on the battery. I'm trying to focus on grounding here. Also, when I attach the ground connector to the mounting screw of the R/R, should the connector be on top of the R/R, just under the screw head, or under the R/R between it and the mounting hole?

RR CONNECTIONS2.jpg

[posplayr]

Thanks very much. So, does this picture represent what I should be doing? Please disregard that the picture does not show anything connected to the positive post on the battery. I'm trying to focus on grounding here. Also, when I attach the ground connector to the mounting screw of the R/R, should the connector be on top of the R/R, just under the screw head, or under the R/R between it and the mounting hole?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45507[/ATTACH]

You can check with an ohm meter but that mounting bolt is isolated from R/R(-) so your R/R(-) is not directly connected to the battery in any way shown except for the ground cable to the back of the engine which is the problem the SPG tries to address.

Put all those ground wire and stack then at the mounting bolt. The diagram I provided show each wire. Compare that to yours.

[ddaniels]

I guess the picture is not very clear. Where that line coming from the harness negative return crosses over the line between the battery and the mounting bolt, that is supposed to be a junction point or SPG where all grounding joins together. Your diagram is nice but does not show what is ground return and what is ground connected to mounting screw. And, why are there two red wires going to R/R? And what is the brown wire? The SH 775 I have only has 5 connection points: 3 stator, 1 positive, 1 negative. Forgive my ignorance, but I tend to think more pictorially than theoretically.

[Nessism]

The SH775 does not ground through the body. That bolt hole ground to frame ground is doing nothing.

You would be better off running the terminal ground over to the battery vs. the frame. If you want to ground to the frame regardless, that's not the worst thing possible, but adding a jumper from that frame ground point over to the battery won't hurt.

[posplayr]

I guess the picture is not very clear. Where that line coming from the harness negative return crosses over the line between the battery and the mounting bolt, that is supposed to be a junction point or SPG where all grounding joins together. Your diagram is nice but does not show what is ground return and what is ground connected to mounting screw. And, why are there two red wires going to R/R? And what is the brown wire? The SH 775 I have only has 5 connection points: 3 stator, 1 positive, 1 negative. Forgive my ignorance, but I tend to think more pictorially than theoretically.

Well 1/2 the problem here is that you think that an explicit diagram according to engineering standards is confusing; the diagram is not an engineering drawing but it is pretty specific and for reference there is accompanying text. I will admit it is not a your drawing it is meant to be a guide to the R/R shown as well as 6 wire and 5 wire R/Rs as well. Again that is explained in the text.

I have to admit alos I did not see those nodes you are referring two, but without having you call out what is SPG I can't tell what is a solder ball or a SPG.

[ddaniels]

What is confusing about the diagram is that it shows more connections to the R/R than there physically are. As I said, there are only 5, unless you want to include the mounting screw, which makes 6. But I appreciate the help here. So, Nessism, you say it is pointless to connect ground from the mounting screw?

[posplayr]

What is confusing about the diagram is that it shows more connections to the R/R than there physically are. As I said, there are only 5, unless you want to include the mounting screw, which makes 6. But I appreciate the help here. So, Nessism, you say it is pointless to connect ground from the mounting screw?

I'm almost certain the text accompanying the figure says if there two wires treat them as one (if they have common end points).
If there are two black wires treat them as one.
If there are two red wires treat them as the same.

The SPG is just a junction for current.

If you have a 5 wire R/R ignore the brown sense wire.

And yes you do not have to ground to the case of the R/R. It is just convenient/close place to gather the wires.

[posplayr]

Apparently what is confusing you is the representation of the b/w backbone in the harness. B/w is distributed throughout the harness to serve as a return path for all components. There are then two b/w that extend from the harness with ring lugs. One of those is shown going to the SPG. The SPG is clearly labeled.

[ddaniels]

Ok, thank you. I could not sit still knowing there was work left to do, so I went home over lunch and redid the wiring. This picture shows what I did. Please tell me it's correct.
RR CONNECTIONS3.jpg

[posplayr]

Ok, thank you. I could not sit still knowing there was work left to do, so I went home over lunch and redid the wiring. This picture shows what I did. Please tell me it's correct.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]45511[/ATTACH]

I know this maybe disappointing and it is almost there but here is the issue.

How big of a wire can you get into the terminal in the R/R(-) connector? Two small 18 awg wires? Now you have only a 18 awg wire carrying 4 amps of charging plus whatever else is coming from teh frame/engine grounds.

The prefered SPG configuration assume you only have one wire (as big as possible) coming off of the R/R(-).

If you can make the r/r(-) a giant solder ball (at the pin) that is just floating off of the connector then remove all the wires from the bolt. However the benefit of the bolt is that it keeps that stack of ringlugs cool and then cant get hot (or just elevated) because they are bolted to a big sheet of metal.


The idea of teh SPG is that you need to connect everything together, and then run one fat wire to R/R(-). If everything at teh SPG is soldered together then then it is even better.

[ddaniels]

I'm trying to understand what you are saying but having difficulty. you assumed I used 18 awg wires, but I don't even know what they are. They are smaller than the wires you see coming from a lamp plug, but bigger than speaker wires. Anyway, does this picture reflect closer to what you are saying?

RR CONNECTIONS4.jpg

[posplayr]

I'm trying to understand what you are saying but having difficulty. you assumed I used 18 awg wires, but I don't even know what they are. They are smaller than the wires you see coming from a lamp plug, but bigger than speaker wires. Anyway, does this picture reflect closer to what you are saying?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45512[/ATTACH]

Yes that is it.

1. The harness B/W is probably carrying about 10 amps with standard loads.
2. The wire to the battery is carrying 4 amps at 3.5K RPM
3. assume another amp through the engine/frame.

Generally you an figure 15 amps for standard loads.
In general your can not separate those currents any more without opening up the harness and splitting the B/W.
If you remove one of the wires then the current will have to move to one of the other wires.

The main thing you are doing is keeping the wire between the battery and SPG so that it is only carrying battery charging current. That keeps those two voltages closest together.

[ddaniels]

Ok, thanks for all the help. When I get motivated enough, I will make these changes.