Possible damaged R/R and/or stator

[Gorminrider]

noratx, you say,

Witj the battery fully charged (charged by an external charger) the bike performs well. The only exception being that the high beam drains the battery completely

.
This indicates the charging system is faulty. The charging system should "keep up" with the hi-beam unless you are idling at a stoplight for 45 minutes or so....

More, but just a speculation because the fault could be elsewhere (see below) it is an indication the stator has "lost a leg" and the output has been reduced....If this speculation is correct, then the stator is shorted OR possibly the problem lies in the infamous Suzuki stator-loop-to-headlight-switch circuit but I don't know if your 82? still has this without consulting your wiring diagram. Further, it's interesting that your light switch drains the battery when key is off, possibly relating to this infamous feature...
Indeed, electrical issues are very common. Easier for me and others is if you start reading some of posplayer's links and forum posts

[noratx]

I was a bit lucky.
The ordered voltmeter arrived earlier than expecten and i am just now in the garage following the guide.
Step 1 and 2 checks out perfectly.
The rest doesnt check at all.

Voltage stays steady at 12.56 v no matter if idle, at 1500 rpm or at 5000.

[Gorminrider]

Voltage stays steady at 12.56 v no matter if idle, at 1500 rpm or at 5000

points to a "lost" stator leg .Find the test for AC output of stator. If you get readings of 16-40 VAC = stator fault OR If your stator test comes up higher revisit my speculation per "headlight loop".
But my speculation is not the only possible cause by any means.
just to begin -Unsaid but always important- Closely inspect all connections for corrosion, heat damage and modification

[noratx]

Thank you.

Can I please ask you to clarify what it means that the stator has lost a leg?

I was trying to find the stator, and as far as I can see on any wiering diagrams, it should have 3 wires.
On the right hand side, just in front of the clutch, I can see a larger wire coming out. It leads to the left hand side sockets, and connects to a black socket on rhe rightmost side. (3 sockets in total, red, white and black). If i dont remember wrong, it connects to the socket and then going straight to the regulator. (I had to quickly finnish up and go back home, will go back later).

Only thing is, this larger wire contains 4 wires, not 3, so I am not sure this is the stator?
On the left hand side, I couldnt see or feel any wires coming out from the engine.

[noratx]

Nevermind, i see now when I loog at the diagram where I am misunderstanding how the wires are going.

Still though, I dont understand what it means that the stator has lost a leg?

Another question, is there a way to simply measure with the meter if the regulator needs to be replaced or not?

[noratx]

*sigh* I guess I will have to take all the readings one more time tomorrow.
I found out, when I had finally made all measures, that I had connected the probes in the multimeter wrong.
I got 3 sockets to put the probes in.

One for red, and 2 for black labeled 10A and COM.
I should have had the black probe at the COM socket, not the 10A.
Thats for failing to read the manual properly before using a new device.

Will I learn from this mistake?
Most likely not... it isn't the first time... not the last time either.

However, i guess I will ask my neighbour to help me tomorrow, as i found it very hard to take some of the readings properly on my own.I need to learn how to use my feets as hands.

[posplayr]

Nevermind, i see now when I loog at the diagram where I am misunderstanding how the wires are going.

Still though, I dont understand what it means that the stator has lost a leg?

Another question, is there a way to simply measure with the meter if the regulator needs to be replaced or not?

If you look at teh stator pages Phase B or the Revised Phase B I have described you will see that you are looking for 80 VAC (+/- 5VAC) at 5000 RPM. Any imbalances beyond that are likely insulation break down which means the stator is on teh way out. The proven best test is leg to ground tests when you shoudl see 0 VAC.

"Losing a leg" means one of the VAC voltage reading (leg to leg) is low.

all links referenced can be found here with other useful information.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?152769-GS-Charging-System-Health&p=1138531#post1138531

[noratx]

Thank you posplayr. With how I had the meter configured, I dont trust any of the previous readings.

The leg to ground test you describe was fluctuating for me, but most often didnt show any resistance. Some times I had resistance up to somewhere around 120 ohms and going down to 0. But still, I do not trust the readings I had.

Will do them again tomorrow with the meter reconfigured.

According to the manual, I should not try measure any AC voltage over 10 amps. Am I at a risk trying to measure the stator with my meter? Or should it work anyway?

edit: Or, wait a minute.
You are describing measuring VAC from leg to ground, not resistance.

But still, are my meter to weak to be used? Or will 10 amps suffice?
Think I have read some of you guys in other threads speaking about 15 and even 25 amps... but that might be for other stuff?

[noratx]

Ok, I had a reason to go back to the bike, and while I was there I did a quick test on the stator.
I had my meter set to 200 VAC and while checking leg to ground, I reved the engine to 5000 rpm, and got a reading of 05.2 on one leg, and the other two at between 01.5 - 03.1.

I do find the readings a bit strange, but I guess that since the meter is set to 200 VAC, 05.2 VAC means 52 VAC and the other readings fluctuated between 15 and 31 VAC.
Or could the stator actually give mesuch low power as only 5.2 on one leg and between 1.5 and 3.1 on the other two and the bike still works as it's supposed to do?
(Well, I have to admit now that I think of it, the headlight is VERY weak, not to meantion the high beam!).

As said earlier, and as you probably understand, I am a COMPLETE 'noob' when it comes to electrics.
If you can find the patience for it, please help me understand and learn how to do this.

I have sucessfully renovated my Z500, but never needed to touch the electrics.
Now that I need to fiddle with the electrics on the GS 850, I am at a complete loss!

[posplayr]

My guess is that 05.2 means 5.2 VAC unless it is x10 or some other indication of a power of 10. Again refer to your manual.

You should confirm your meter's operating using a house current outlet. There is usually a scale above 200 VAC. I assume you are running 230 VAC in Sweden. At a high scale than 200, confirm you can measure about 230 VAC and then redo your stator measurements.

Assuming the meter is set correctly you should not see much of anything; even 5 VAC. For example that probably corresponds to about 10% of the power if on all legs. The fact that they are different also indicates something is probably damaged due to heat. If there was 20 VAC then you stator is toast.


If you read this you will see that: Any positive result that a stator is good means little to nothing(if not a loaded tests), but any bad result can disqualify the stator.

Redo the leg to Leg to see if a problem shows up there.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?223164-FIRST-and-SECOND-LAW-of-Stator-testing&highlight=Phase+B

[noratx]

My guess is that 05.2 means 5.2 VAC unless it is x10 or some other indication of a power of 10. Again refer to your manual.

You should confirm your meter's operating using a house current outlet. There is usually a scale above 200 VAC. I assume you are running 230 VAC in Sweden. At a high scale than 200, confirm you can measure about 230 VAC and then redo your stator measurements.

I did actually refer to the manual, but it doesn't say anything.
The reasons I thought the 05.2 was 52 VAC, was simply because I expected 3 digits + at least one decimal.

The manual says

Measurement of alternating current (VAC)
Range, Resolution, Accuracy
200 V, 100 mV, ± 1.2% ± 10 digits
600 V, 1 V, ± 1.2% ± 10 digits

To be honest I was a bit affraid of plugging the meter into the wall socket, but thought that would give me a reference.
I will bring the meter from the topbox tomorrow and plug it to the wall socket and see. If it shows 230 then the readings from the stator was, in fact, 5.2 volts. If it shows 23.0, well, then it was 52 volts on the stator.
Never the less, since the passing results should have been 0, I am quite sure the stator is faulty and needs to be replaced.
But I will keep my order-hitting finger tucked in until I do some more testing tomorrow.
I just hope that it's either ONLY the stator that needs to be replaced, or that I am able to find out if also the R/R needs to be replaced (and any other parts for that matter too). I really hate to order one item, only to find out shortly after it arrives, that I need other parts as well.

Thanks for responding and helping me out. I really apreciate it!

[posplayr]

Measurement of alternating current (VAC)
Range, Resolution, Accuracy
200 V, 100 mV, ± 1.2% ± 10 digits
600 V, 1 V, ± 1.2% ± 10 digits

10 Digits means that it is going to read out the full value with as many as 10 digits.

Those reading by themselves are not good but would not explain a totally flat voltage reading when trying to charge. You probably are going to get much less than 80 VAC on teh leg to leg measurements.

The likely hood will be strong the stator is burned and so if you pull it and it is, then order both a new stator and a Series R/R.

After you receive hem,, install and following the wiring instructions in GS Charging Health and you should be good but do another quick test to confirm. If that checks to Revised Phase A test.

Order so DeOxit as well or the equivalent in Europe.

[mmattockx]

I just hope that it's either ONLY the stator that needs to be replaced, or that I am able to find out if also the R/R needs to be replaced (and any other parts for that matter too).

Honestly, if I were you and the stator needs replacing then I would also replace the R/R without a second thought. The original R/R from Suzuki was a shunt type. It ran the stator at full output all the time and just dumped whatever current it didn't need to ground. This killed stators because they were working at 100% capacity all the time when it just wasn't required and they ran hot. If you change to the SH-775 series type regulator your new stator will thank you. The series R/R's only pull whatever current they need from the stator, allowing it to work less hard and run cooler, which greatly increases their life spans.

You can find many threads on the series type R/R's if you search on 'sh775' and 'polaris'.


Mark

[noratx]

I am just poking around for both stator and R/R and found the caltric stator. Caltric also sells two different types of r/rs.

Unfortunately I have to be careful with the money, as my economy isnt the best (especially after last week, when we had burglars stealing both helmets, intercoms and tools the day before we were supposed to go for a long trip).

I need to ask you, is it essential to get the sh775 r/r, or would the caltric ones work just as well?
They got 2 models, one at 23 bucks, and one at 45, while the sh775 seems to begin at 90 bucks.

I guess, as usual, you get what you pay for, so I dont think I would jump at the 23 bucks version.

http://www.caltric.com/index.php/motorcycles.html/?find=suzuki-1982-gs850g---1982-117333

Edit: If I can find space in my economy to get the sh775, I will get it. Otherwise I may have to resort to cheaper r/r.
According to the caltric website, they should both fit, question is,is any of those two better than the other?

[2BRacing]

......I need to ask you, is it essential to get the sh775 r/r, or would the caltric ones work just as well? Edit: If I can find space in my economy to get the sh775, I will get it. Otherwise I may have to resort to cheaper r/r.
According to the caltric website, they should both fit, question is,is any of those two better than the other?

As explained in post #28, the way in which the SH775 (series type) R/R works is very different to the way any other shunt type R/R works.

Yes, they will all work in your motorcycle, BUT if you want your new stator to have a long, healthy life, you MUST get the series type SH775. This is even more important if you plan to replace the indicator and headlight bulbs with LED versions which draw less current than the old bulbs.