Suzuki GSX 400 F stator replacement

[Guest]

Hi,

I know this might sound weird but I am in a real trouble. But first I think I should introduce myself to you. My name is Himer I live in Poland and I have GSX 400F in Swedish version which is extremely rare in my country. The bike is nice and in a real good condition but now I am having a problem with no charging. I've checked the regulator and it is completely shot. There is a short on a rectifier to the ground so I think that is the cause of stator going bad. I've measured stator within the service manual and it reads 85V/20V/20V, two phases are shorted somewhere, resistance is not measurable. Well stator is my main problem I live in Poland and there is no replacement. I have the stator replacement but from GSX 400 E which was 2 cylinder not 4, the cover is diffrent too. I am having some kind of "spider sense tingling" that stator from GSX 400 E has obviously correct inner and outer diameter but the thickness of ferrite is little bit thicker than I think it should be. I haven't removed the cover yet, I didn't have time for this right now.

I need some measurments of this stator, maybe someone has one and could share numbers? That would be extremely helpful because I need to do this reapair at once I have spare gasket but I need correct stator for that. I don't know if they did any additional clearance in thickness if not then I will need to buy another stator.

For the replacement R/R I got SH572A-12 which is mounted in GN125 for what I've found. Wiring corresponds 5 wires, +, ground and three phases. I'll use that because I got it completely for free.

[tom203]

some kind of "spider sense tingling"

welcome. The typical stator on this size suzuki has 93mm outside diameter, a 35mm hole and is about 25mm thick at poles. The thickness will vary maybe plus/minus 1mm (based on units that I've measured)

Remove the stator cover and compare them. Make sure the replacement fits under the cover without bottoming out: make sure that the cover fits nice and secure.
That r/r is ok,since it's free, but you might want to read up on the SH-775 unit - probably hard to come by in your country, but it's a better solution.

If possible, post a pic of your bike- we like pics!

[Himer]

So you suggest that replacement I got might fail? I am just curious if it can be a temporary replacement until I get something better. Today another stator came in, for a cheap money too but it's damaged. To my help it's part number corresponds to that from service manual I have measured it and the thickness is 29,50mm. My good GSX 400 E repalcement has same thickness only one diffrence is that the coils are drowned in some kind of epoxy. The rest is the same but I will need to check how it sits in cover(same height measured). I am also wondering about the gasket because I can't get replacement and I have to tell you I hate using RTV silicone but in this case I will probably need to mount the cover using it instead of gasket I just have no other choice. In this weekend I am going to take the cover off and swap stator. Theres one thing I think I need to mention. Original installation switches one phase through lightning switch. I need to leave it as it is or connect all phases to the regulator separately? I am going to attach a pic of her too.
IMG_20160609_192253.jpg

[tom203]

If you run with headlight "off" often , leave that loop going thru headlight switch- it reduces load on stator when you are using that shunt style r/r. Over here we are required to have headlight "on" at all times to aid target acquistion.

As to gasket, can you get some gasket material from a auto parts supplier and make your own? I'm not a fan of rtv sealant for this use, as you likely will be removing it again if your stator fails (very likely with a shunt r/r - I'm on my third stator, as first two were fried. I upgraded to the SH-775 three years ago and have had no further charging issues.)

bike looks good! How about a side pic to wow us?

[Himer]

I do not ride without headlamp but I am not turning then on while she warms up so I will leave that as it is. Now after some digging I have the info that GSX 400 E stator is useless for me because it has 12 poles and I have 18 poles rotor + stator system. I started to dig the stator that came in to me and after removing the remains of old wires(which were completely desintegrated including cotton lining) I brought my inductor tester, and DMM. Well it doesn't look so sexy but the inductor says that insulation is still okay, and DMM shows that there is no short to the ground and all windings show same resistance equal to 0.8 ohms. So that's good I will need to solder new wires and cover that with shrink tubes. So I guess having that particular R/R and this stator I can't estimate even how long this will work, a short ride or a few seasons.

IMG_20160708_003242.jpg

Doesn't look the best but my equipment shows that it is still fine but needs new wires. I am electrician by the way. Tommorow in the morning I will clean it with isopropylic alcohol(it is chemically neutral to everything) then I will solder new wires on to it and bend that plate again to secure my job. I hope that this R/R I got will not burn down ultra fast including stator. About the gasket, I do have some gambit laying around but I am "disabled" manually I tried many times to cut a gasket but it was a FAIL. About side pics, sure I will document my job with replacing the stator there is even a chance for a film The bike has mileage of 81500 kilometres. Somebody replaced stator before(allen screws instead of phillips screws). I'll check old R/R but I think it really failed and I don't want to risk plugging it in again.

I also started digging into this:

http://www.thegsresources.com/statorpapers6.php

And I think that probably in dead season I will rewind my old stator because getting brand new replacement in my country is impossible. Rewinding wire isn't that much expensive probably one roll will cover whole stator. And there's one question, maybe it will help me. This R/R you recommend. Does it come to a particular model of the motorcycle, becasue typing SH-775 gives me nothing. There's a chance that this particular R/R fits particular model of motorcyle so I will be able to trace it and buy it. My appreciation for your help.

[Grimly]

The SH-775 was fitted to a Polaris ATV for the past few years. Some motorcycles are now being fitted with its successor, but they're nothing like as cheap as the Polaris part (Shindengen made both of them).
Until recently, the best source of Polaris reg-recs of that type was the used market in the US, and you can still stumble across them on US ebay for $40-50 or so, but the new price is so low that it's hardly worthwhile spending that on a used one nowadays. A couple of years ago they were commonly $30.
You can buy a new one for less than $70

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?226979-Polaris-R-R-prices-%28SH775-Polaris-part-number-4012941%29

However, within Europe, the Polaris dealers will sell you one for less than €100, which isn't too bad, because if you take shipping from the US into account, plus customs duty, etc, the European price is ok.
The Polaris EU website... enjoy.

http://polarisindustries.eu/

BEWARE OF FAKES ON EBAY - if you have any doubts, ask on here.

[tom203]

An electrician! Rewinding the stator will be easy for you, it's just a standard 3 phase wye connected system.
As grimly states, beware of fake sh-775 : you want polaris p/n 4012941. You might get lucky and find one on a wrecked polaris atv, as the r/r probably would survive.

[Himer]

I took a closer look to that today and it shouldn't be very hard to do. I am just wondering what should I use back on the cores to insulate. Japaneese used some kind of epoxy I guess because nothing else than methylene Chloride dissolves that. Maybe mine will be in a good shape on the cores and epoxy will be fine so I will need some wire I am only wondering how much I need. The good way of rewinding this will be taking stator piece by piece and making a photo out of every step so that would give a good reverse engineering here. I am seeing one wye connection and some kind of "layers" I mean that one whole phase goes after another then they meet in wye connection. I will need to rebuild this stator anyway I am only now summaring what I will need to do with it and probably I will need to buy that black gunk used for electronics which seals everything and nothing can get to it except methylene chloride. I am worried about the stator I attached pic of. Well I cleaned that off and most of black stuff came from the remnants of cables and cotton lining but I noticed that this stator has nothing like huge cracks but a little cracks on the outside layer, they aren't deep just like you scratched surface a little bit. It's confusing me because insulation resistance is still fine according to my books and testing. I would just rewind old stator but there is one tiny topic coming ahead. She stands now in not some nice place and she is very far away. I need charging even for one ride. I guess only one way to find will be mounting it on the cover, placing cover back in, rewire along the starter, connect everything and fire her up. Maybe it will last some time maybe it will fail after one ride.

I am only trying to understand failure of this charging system, yes I am electrician but at school I was told about three phase motors, DC motors, alternators but alternators with EMF regulated separately like in a car(I may have written something bad, my english is not that much advanced). I still don't know why the stator burns or how shunt regulator works I am just guessing that excessive current is shorted to ground by the thyristor. If replacement stator will fail again soon then I will fit rewinded stator and try to get SH-775 regulator in here and probably my problem will be gone forever.

[Gorminrider]

FYI your stator looks to be the same as mine... from a 1981 GSX400E...

as to 100 euro sh775's, I am quite happy with R/R's from Honda Silverwings and Goldwings. They run cool and can be a lot cheaper . They were a favourite replacement here before the sh775s.
as to why stator burns , I believe there are more reasons to blame than just the "shunt" regulator, but it's true in my case, both regulators from 2 gsx 400s had burned stators and "blown" regulators which I rewound /replaced

[Himer]

Okay, some things are going a little bit further. I have soldered new wires to the stator I said it came with damaged wires in the connection to the coils. But for God's sake if anybody is going to solder that wires and then shrink insulation with a lighter I am going to personally kill you as an electrician. For that use hot air soldering station with variety of jets is intended. I raised temperature to about 200 celsius degrees in normal engine operating temperature it won't shrink. Those tubes I use can stand 3kV test without a problem. And the voltages on the stator are far more less than that. You can clearly see that little crack on the insulation I have bad feeling on this stator but for now I don't have a better one. I was digging up today about making a gasket and I think that with that gambit I have laying around I will make new one without a problem. Plus a gambit is extremely strong so it can be used more than one time(I have checked that on my Czechoslovakian CZ 350 model 472.6 with 12V alternator, 24HP two stroke 1987). I also got a very tiny voltmeter that I am going to attach to a handlebar just in case without that probably I will still be scared to ride her anywhere. Having a voltmeter on handlebar probably will save me from some major malfunction.

The wiring just goes like that because of desintegration in the connection with coil wires. I've measured diameter of old wires and in my country that corresponds to 0,75 mm square so I got that diameter with a better insulation than in old years. I made it snug so it won't fall down or something and also bent the clip as much as my tools let me.

IMG_20160708_235642.jpg

Well if that stator wil survive rest of this season then I will be able to rewind the one from the engine and get a better R/R in dead season.

[tom203]

The voltmeter on handlebar is a good idea,as it can give you advance warning of charging issues. When my previous stator started to deteriorate, its output voltage declined to about 13.5 volts at all rpms. I rode it like this for about 25 hours and it stayed there.
these stators produce little at 1200 rpm, start good production at 2000 or so, and then likely max out in 4000 rpm range supplying more than the bike needs so the shunt r/r dumps any excess to ground. The series SH-775 can switch off this stator current flow thereby sparing the stator from working hard and getting toasty.

[Himer]

I have done more digging. In my country there aren't many regulators for Polaris ATV and those regulators aren't SH-775A. But I have traced that I can get a regulator with number like this and it looks like SH-775. And It is available in reasonable money in my currency PLN - from 250-300. I am trying to trace better regulator because I need something better if I will have another stator failure probably if this is regulator corresponding to SH-775A my problems will be gone.

The numbers are: FH012AA, OEM ID 1D7-81960-01

[posplayr]

Your research is faulty you absolutely do not want any part number that starts with FH. It needs to start with SH!!!

SH-775 and SH775A are equivalent the ending designation is not important.

SH means it is a series R/R. FH means it is a shunt R/r

[Grimly]

If you were going to spend €70 on an FH type, you would be better adding the extra and getting a genuine SH775 from some other EU source, like the UK or Ireland. There will be no customs duties to Poland, and the shipping might be reasonable.
Try the Polaris EU site again, most especially look in the UK/Ireland

http://polarisbritain.com/find-a-dealer/map-view.html

One of our members recently bought a new one from Trakland in Kerry, for €90.
I had an email from one of the dealers in Northern Ireland, who has them at the same price.

[posplayr]

The FH is great in protecting the R/R but the worst thing you can do for a stator.