Suzuki GSX 400 F stator replacement

[Himer]

Okay to summarize. I have done R/R test wrong. I did them again on rectifier - everything within the books. The I got but the analog ohm tester because even metex can't measure anything in this regulator and say record from the book. On the analog tester with original R/R every resistance between measuring points in the service book are in spec. Rectifier is okay. I have replaced faulty stator with the one I got for spare and it is still working. Without headlights I have 14V on idle, 14,7 max even on higher revs. With the headlamp on voltage is 13V with a little. On higher rpm voltage is 13,89V-13,99. According to the service manual this model had specific R/R with regulation up to 14V to save the battery from boiling. I could fit my replacement regulator SH-572A but I don't know if there are any advantages over the original one from 1983. And yes somebody replaced the stator before me(springy washers under phillips screws). I am going to rebuild old stator probably in dead season and I hope that the one I have fitted in the engine will at least survive a season.

Just tell me if I need to swap original R/R to the regulator I have written in first post. Oh one more thing, didn't use RTV. I succesfully cut a gasket out of gambit

Thank you for your help especially for R/R info.

[posplayr]

Okay to summarize. I have done R/R test wrong. I did them again on rectifier - everything within the books. The I got but the analog ohm tester because even metex can't measure anything in this regulator and say record from the book. On the analog tester with original R/R every resistance between measuring points in the service book are in spec. Rectifier is okay. I have replaced faulty stator with the one I got for spare and it is still working. Without headlights I have 14V on idle, 14,7 max even on higher revs. With the headlamp on voltage is 13V with a little. On higher rpm voltage is 13,89V-13,99. According to the service manual this model had specific R/R with regulation up to 14V to save the battery from boiling. I could fit my replacement regulator SH-572A but I don't know if there are any advantages over the original one from 1983. And yes somebody replaced the stator before me(springy washers under phillips screws). I am going to rebuild old stator probably in dead season and I hope that the one I have fitted in the engine will at least survive a season.

Just tell me if I need to swap original R/R to the regulator I have written in first post. Oh one more thing, didn't use RTV. I succesfully cut a gasket out of gambit

Thank you for your help especially for R/R info.

Include GS Stator in your research reading List

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?191795-GS-Stator

[Himer]

I have e-mailed UK dealers and waiting for response but today I have done some research about Polaris dealer in my country and happily there is. More happily dealer is located 15 kilometers from my house. I have told them the part number from the link in the last post from posplayr. SH-775 is available but the sad part is... Final cost at my dealership is ~170 euro. I saw it with my own eyes markings are correct it is genuine SH-775. I don't have that money now but I know it is there. For now I am sticking to the original shunt R/R probably till the next burndown I will have SH-775 lying on my shelf with some nicely rewinded stator or should I say... Completely rebuilt. I will ask my collegue from Japan who is riding Jawa 638 there, he is really into international shopping maybe he will trace that R/R for cheaper with shipping included. I saw all offers on ebay but those regulators looks like a fake and sellers are not including photos of markings. I am assuming that probably including shipping I will cut maybe 30 euro on the price I don't know if it is worth gambling where I have a genuine one just beneath my nose. In my money it is a payload but if it is going to end my charging problems then it is more than worth it. I have spent fortune on rebuilding 2 strokes and that R/R isn't expensive in my point of view.

In addtion to yesterday: https://youtu.be/4tWaI46lDBs
Sorry for bad speech.

[posplayr]

If you have and SH572A then that is probably what you want.

I just posted this.

THIS LINK WAS DELETED TO AVOID CONFUSION; as of 7/12/2016 teh only series Shindengen commonly available is the SH775. There are plenty more that have the SH prefix but are apparently all SHUNT. See GS Stator updated today.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?241393-Greatly-Expanded-Family-of-SERIES-R-R-s-from-Shindingen&p=2310215#post2310215

[tom203]

Pray for brexit, to cut that cost!

[Himer]

Happily I did only 6 kilometres right now on original R/R. There is one detail which is important. Original Japaneese R/R regulates ONLY ONE phase not 3. So even any other shunt R/R is way better than original one which does premature wear on the stator. I am a bit confused about that 572A and posplayr info... I am currently not equipped with scope but even if this R/R is shunt it regulates all 3 phases. Original R/R causes asymetrical load which leads to premature wear. I'm going to garage in the evening after work I am going to get my crimp tool, connectors and find a place for SH572A-12(getting original one out will require disassembling whole intake I don't want to do that). I am happy now that I didn't stop digging some more. Being curious is sometimes a good thing.

[posplayr]

Happily I did only 6 kilometres right now on original R/R. There is one detail which is important. Original Japaneese R/R regulates ONLY ONE phase not 3. So even any other shunt R/R is way better than original one which does premature wear on the stator. I am a bit confused about that 572A and posplayr info... I am currently not equipped with scope but even if this R/R is shunt it regulates all 3 phases. Original R/R causes asymetrical load which leads to premature wear. I'm going to garage in the evening after work I am going to get my crimp tool, connectors and find a place for SH572A-12(getting original one out will require disassembling whole intake I don't want to do that). I am happy now that I didn't stop digging some more. Being curious is sometimes a good thing.

The early single phase control R/R's are the only ones I know that will allow a stock bike to overcharge. My GS750EX (81) was that way but after cleaning all connections, adding a heat sink and proper grounding I never had another problem.

[Johnny]

In case you may still need a stator and other stuff, check this English webshop: www.wemoto.com Here's the stuff for the GSX 400 FX Four (which is the bike that you have, right?): http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/suzuki/gsx_400_fx_four/81/ I have ordered stuff from them several times and it gets to Estonia in about a week, I guess it would be the some to Poland. I definitely can recommend that shop. Another one I recommend is www.motorcycleproducts.co.uk , although they don't seem to have stators currently: http://www.motorcycleproducts.co.uk/...4227_4231.html

As for the series regulators, then this guy/shop sells them in kits as well: www.roadstercycle.com He's in USA though... I haven't ordered mine yet, and maybe never will, but I was recommended that shop and the kits there seem like quality stuff.

[Himer]

Well probably my oem then is regulated in most lower spec ever(mostly 13,8V on high rpm). Without regulation(HI position on light switch) it overcharges battery that's true(15V). With asymetrical load from that oem R/R stator wave must look funny on scope but not so funny in conclusion when stator just dies. Asymetrical load causes a lot of overheat and no... 2 phases not regulated aren't going to make things easier on the stator. I did some research on materials I will need for the old stator. They used epoxy on the ferrite cores and that epoxy is broken so I will need to fill that cracks and add a tiny layer of new one. In my country the only solution probably is epidian5 easiest to buy and not expensive after hardening nothing dissolves it, copper wire in H spec isn't a problem too. For now old stator will be just lying on the shelf it is a project when salary comes in. I just hope that I will not swear on my fingers. I tried to find some nice spot for the R/R and I will probably mount it at the start of the "tail" on the side it will get good airflow comparing to the original mount right behind hot engine.

In overall Suzuki used poor materials for the stator(epoxy just cracks), copper insulation is probably in some kind of class B(temperature limit up to 130 degrees celsius I believe) and they cut costs on the regulator which caused asymetric load and that rises stator's temperature up a lot. I think now I have all necessary informations to patch myself up later. In my case old stator isn't shorted two phases are just "open" I had same kind of malfunction in czechoslovakian CZ 350 alternator - missing phase. And for some taste. Which phases turned out to be open? The non regulated ones. Coincidence?

[Grimly]

Yep, the charging system earned the GS Suzukis an early reputation for poor electrics. Which was a pity, because the mechanical bits were generally very well done, and could easily be improved on if needed (things like brakes and forks, for example). Unfortunately, the corner Suzuki chose to cut quality on was the stator and regulator, which was an area most owners knew nothing about and found themselves having to pay a lot of money to get fixed.
On the bright side, now we know all about them and how to fix them properly, the reputation keeps the prices down a bit and we can still pick up cheap bikes.
It's the first thing anyone knows about GSs and often the first thing somebody asks me - "I've heard they were terrible charging systems, is that true?" Or, "I had one of those, cost me a fortune to get running right, the battery never charged and it was always blowing bulbs, etc, etc."

[Himer]

I have installed SH-572A which seems to be small R/R. After a ride I have measured this R/R temperature and it gets to around 40-50 celsius degress. Charging voltage? I have flattened my battery a bit after last trials so I guess that 13,5V on 5K might be a flattened battery issue or this replaced stator is about going to pass. When this one fails I am getting brand new electrex one. On the lower side with headlight on that's just strange. Up to 4K I get mostly 14V when revs go up it flattens about 0,3-0,5V and it stays constant. I guess riding now is a best option till it breaks again. At least I have eliminated asymetric load and that will give stator little bit more of life remaining. Charging voltage is strangely low in norms but when I go to city start/stop and do everything that drains battery then I go on the trip and leave her for 24 hours - the battery isn't discharged to zero it is being charged. To summarize i go with battery that shows 12,2V on DMM. Considering that low charging voltage in mind I go for a trip then just leave her for 24 hours and then check battery voltage and mostly the battery is pumped to 12,5-12,6V.