Could a sh775 kill a stator?

[posplayr]

I don't know where to start...

Save your typing, this says it all.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?243944-Series-R-R-installations-at-the-GSR

[Grimly]

So has any one here had a sh 775 fail? I replaced two regulators in three years and this spring installed a 775 with good results. Granted I only put on about 4500 miles this summer.

Not had an SH775 fail, but when I installed it two 1/2 years ago, I deliberately left in a slightly-cooked stator that wouldn't normally last the summer with a shunt RR.
Guess what? With the 775, it's still working fine - 14.5V peak, 14.1V at 3K, all the lights are better than ever and the bike's running smooth.
I expect it will fail sooner or later (the stator, not the RR) and I'm ready for it, as it will have proved something, to me at least.

[mainiac]

Not had an SH775 fail, but when I installed it two 1/2 years ago, I deliberately left in a slightly-cooked stator that wouldn't normally last the summer with a shunt RR.
Guess what? With the 775, it's still working fine - 14.5V peak, 14.1V at 3K, all the lights are better than ever and the bike's running smooth.
I expect it will fail sooner or later (the stator, not the RR) and I'm ready for it, as it will have proved something, to me at least.

I was leery of my stator as well but it passed the test so I went with it. Not sure if it was the original. As I said no issues yet.

[Brendan W]

There was the Irishman with an inferiority complex - He thought he was only as good as everyone else

[OldVet66]

Not had an SH775 fail, but when I installed it two 1/2 years ago, I deliberately left in a slightly-cooked stator that wouldn't normally last the summer with a shunt RR.
Guess what? With the 775, it's still working fine - 14.5V peak, 14.1V at 3K, all the lights are better than ever and the bike's running smooth.
I expect it will fail sooner or later (the stator, not the RR) and I'm ready for it, as it will have proved something, to me at least.

I did the same with my Compu-Fire. The blackened stator lasted exactly one year before it gave up. Installed a new stator and it has been working fine for years. Nothing over-complicated about that except an over-opinionated mouth.

[Gorminrider]

The proposition that there is 6 ohms of resistance in a shorted R/R demonstrates a lack of any real grasp of the basic operation of the circuit.

Well, I fail. Old R/Rs burn out, old stators burn out. I'm not getting "why" in this course so I think I'll drop this course and The "Professor" is really cranky. But I'm happy enough with my speculation that the base is not being fully saturated and therefore it gets hot acting as though it has a higher resistance....combined with a semi-mystical grasp of hysterisis and other Mysteries, it'll probably tide me over until I can find a more satisfying answer.

Not had an SH775 fail, but when I installed it two 1/2 years ago, I deliberately left in a slightly-cooked stator that wouldn't normally last the summer with a shunt RR.

good news,Grimly. You won't mind if I quote you as an illustration of a few of my puzzles? It's not about you and you needn't answer but I read similar all the time..... I'm not sure how you know it wouldn't last with a "shunt R/R"...but which shunt R/R is likely part of my question too. And the exact meaning of "cooked"? Is appearance is due to oil-vapour being burned onto the stator by the stator or if the oil vapour is merely discolouring the varnish....or if the varnish itself is Truly toasted and the varnish flakes off...pretty plain on a burned-out electric motor where the varnish flakes off leaving bare wire. Discolouration does not flake off.
I am not sure either how old your stator is or how many miles it has. Do stators have a lifetime expectancy? Are the stators made in 1980 failing just because their varnish is poor or aged out like tire rubber? questions questions.
The one thing I surmise from a lot of posts I have read: Replacing all the components is going to be a good thing and should give at least the mileage the old ones did.. even with the unpopular shunt R/R which, I surmise is an average 20 -30 thousand miles?( a very rough guess) and that might be enough that I don't have to deal with it again..

[posplayr]

Well, I fail. Old R/Rs burn out, old stators burn out. I'm not getting "why" in this course so I think I'll drop this course and The "Professor" is really cranky. But I'm happy enough with my speculation that the base is not being fully saturated and therefore it gets hot acting as though it has a higher resistance....combined with a semi-mystical grasp of hysterisis and other Mysteries, it'll probably tide me over until I can find a more satisfying answer.

Sorry for being cranky but you are grasping at straws and ignoring the obvious.
You can read the voltage across the R/R when shunted right from the plots in that link. It is less than 1 volt.

Since you mentioned a base, I assume you are referring to SCR's and not the MOSFET shunt R/R. The SCR does not have a mode where the transistor is operated in the unsaturated mode. It is either full on or full off.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/semiconductors/chpt-7/silicon-controlled-rectifier-scr/

[Gorminrider]

Sorry for being cranky but you are grasping at straws and ignoring the obvious.
You can read the voltage across the R/R when shunted right from the plots in that link. It is less than 1 volt.

Since you mentioned a base, I assume you are referring to SCR's and not the MOSFET shunt R/R. The SCR does not have a mode where the transistor is operated in the unsaturated mode. It is either full on or full off.


http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/text...rectifier-scr/

OK! thanks. That is more useful than what I was reading... yes, I am referring to SCRS (as I thought was plain), seeing as the old R/Rs were SCRs . and my speculation does revolve around a concern that these do not have the cutoffs or breakdowns that are as sharp or "square" as I would have thought and acting with more heating being more resistant...I know for instance that zener diodes do not break down exactly"square" (if you get my meaning!) and ..equilibrium in a charging system is a constant change of up and down..example: The shunt is engaged, the system voltage drops, below the setpoint..... The shunt is therefore disengaged and voltage rises above the setpoint and the shunt is re-engaged...over and over, very quickly. If it is not the scrs, then some component is giving off the heat which I think is the fact of burned out oem R/Rs. ( aside: that usually keep conducting through their rectification stage which is a clue) The why seems important to me. But "replacement" is probably more useful!
It seems to me the same cycling and "hunting" for stability is going to be going on in the series type or the Mosfet shunt type but where the series type is opening and closing a coil rapidly the other ( the shunt) is not. If it is Granted that the shunt-type is allowing more current in those same coils the comparison does still not seem a "no-brainer" to me.

[posplayr]

The only thing that is getting hot are those things that are carrying a lot of current. The only thing carrying primary current is either a diode or an SCR; in total that is items al lof which drop between 0.5-1.0 volts when forward biased/activated.

[Gorminrider]

Not that anyone noticed but just a note per shorting stator as a test mentioned in post 58..? I am just cherry-picking through a pdf I found ("Design Considerations for Permanent Magnet Direct Drive
Generators for Wind Energy Applications") that shorting their AC PM generators out can demagnetise the magnets, so maybe I won't do it! I can't see if they are using "ceramic" magnets but I expect so...
and it makes sense given that I used to demagnetise cassette decks and screwdrivers with a demagnetiser which is uses ac fields!

Hopefully this doesn't open up the question of the shunt doing the same thing but of course, it isn't always shunting either so it's counterfield? is weaker.

[Gorminrider]

yeah, well... I just find there's too much info on the internet...for instance, sh775's are apparently not for everyone.(there's an upgrade available?to a newer series -type?) Here's a post in an interesting thread per rpm breakdown of these. Not relevant unless you rev your bike to redline-still....

http://www.triumphrat.net/6885785-post15.html

There's a lot of talk about hot R/Rs here. I pretty much don't find it applicable because my ol' Honda ones get warmish in summer but not hot, compared to the OEM ones (eg: the OEM? Nippon Denso on the 650 functioned but was always hot!) as to why the difference in heat I am not sure.

I have been reading a lot of stuff. One wonders why This battery manufacturer doesn't "get it" and still (as of june 2016 )wants you to get a mosfet type shunt. It's Lithium batteries, so maybe that's important. And they likely don't care about your stator ! either but still...

http://shoraipower.com/Overview-of-Voltage-Regulator-Types

and finally I found someone else that brings up the stator itself. It's an old thread but seems to talk about stators themselves in an interesting way.
Facts about shunt-based regulators

[posplayr]

yeah, well... I just find there's too much info on the internet...for instance, sh775's are apparently not for everyone.(there's an upgrade available?to a newer series -type?) Here's a post in an interesting thread per rpm breakdown of these. Not relevant unless you rev your bike to redline-still....

http://www.triumphrat.net/6885785-post15.html

There's a lot of talk about hot R/Rs here. I pretty much don't find it applicable because my ol' Honda ones get warmish in summer but not hot, compared to the OEM ones (eg: the OEM? Nippon Denso on the 650 functioned but was always hot!) as to why the difference in heat I am not sure.

I have been reading a lot of stuff. One wonders why This battery manufacturer doesn't "get it" and still (as of june 2016 )wants you to get a mosfet type shunt. It's Lithium batteries, so maybe that's important. And they likely don't care about your stator ! either but still...

http://shoraipower.com/Overview-of-Voltage-Regulator-Types

and finally I found someone else that brings up the stator itself. It's an old thread but seems to talk about stators themselves in an interesting way.
Facts about shunt-based regulators

Timebandit is a hack; he thinks he can reinvent all of electrical engineering with pure logical deduction.

I don't know why he defends SHUNT R/Rs but it is partially becuase of his associations with the Buell factory. Buell did not want to admit fault with a defective charging system, so TimBandit defends SHUNT and MOSFET R/Rs. I don't recall just now what they were doing but Buell was offering a retrofit rotor of some sort to finally solve the issue. It was an expensive $500+ fix. The details are in the Buell Superbike fourum.

I has several ongoing feud with him a Buell fourum.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/290431.html

They have an entire forum dedicated to chanrging issues so looks like TimeBandit is keeping things active over there.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/646530.html?1480222535

I logged in and did a search on Compufire.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/search.cgi

There are several members that installed Compufire s on their Buells and it greatly extended the life of the stators. I have not been back in several years now.
The biggest issue with the Buell (based on Timebandit's data) is the bike is in thermal runaway and no matter what the R/R does teh stators cook.

He has accused me of being a shill for USMotoman because I listed them as the cheapest source back in 2010.
He ignored the fact that I listed the partnumber from another major supplier.
He also accused me of fabricating all of the scope charts in the Series v.s. MOSFET comparison.

He is tenacious, just misguided. This is about the time I quite paying any attention to this instrument the world approach to pseudo-engineering.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/676583.html

Digging this stuff up is just spreading misinformation as it doesn't apply to GS's as it clear from the recent polls for SH-775 service history of installed units .

[Lorenzo]

Not surprised your grandpa rides one, or wears the t-shirts. They are built soft and slow for older folks.

post #42

Reading this thread backwards (a sign of interest) I came about this comment and could not resist posting this video.

Nor that I am an HD fan or have qualms with the poster, but sometimes you have to give Caesar what belongs to Caesar's...

[Gorminrider]

oh! well,I'll read those. Thanks! never came across them before...

Digging this stuff up is just spreading misinformation as it doesn't apply to GS's as it clear from the recent polls for SH-775 service history of installed units .

well, I missed a lot of the original debates. I don't see the problem with an occassional "refresh" . ....as to "clear from recent polls", I see 1 voter with 4000 miles on a compufire, 25 with SH775s that are "still good" (no mileage though) etc. So I am not super- convinced by these polls yet, given I more than 4000 miles all my shunt types (and my own-wound stator). But I know too from various posts that some have more than 4000 miles on their series-type.
And the combination of which stator combined with which R/R has a bearing on all this...it's all sort of moot to ME anyways, ( albeit interesting) because all my stators are "underwound".

thinking: IF the stator was better matched to the actual loads of the bike, it wouldn't need all this "shunting" or "stoppage". This seems an even better argument to me as LEDs take over from incandescents.

[posplayr]

oh! well,I'll read those. Thanks! never came across them before...


well, I missed a lot of the original debates. I don't see the problem with an occassional "refresh" . ....as to "clear from recent polls", I see 1 voter with 4000 miles on a compufire, 25 with SH775s that are "still good" (no mileage though) etc. So I am not super- convinced by these polls yet, given I more than 4000 miles all my shunt types (and my own-wound stator). But I know too from various posts that some have more than 4000 miles on their series-type.
And the combination of which stator combined with which R/R has a bearing on all this...it's all sort of moot to ME anyways, ( albeit interesting) because all my stators are "underwound".

thinking: IF the stator was better matched to the actual loads of the bike, it wouldn't need all this "shunting" or "stoppage". This seems an even better argument to me as LEDs take over from incandescents.

I'm the only one voted that my Compufire faild; it did not I just screwed up my selectuion.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?243944-Series-R-R-installations-at-the-GSR