Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Clueless electrical member testing R/R diode

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Clueless electrical member testing R/R diode

    So I'm guilty of watching a youtube video on electrical motorcycle troubleshooting.

    Since my bike never starts when I attempt to start it (SC snatching) it's difficult to test the charging system when increasing rpm's.

    On my last ride the battery voltage was 12.83 at rest. When I returned after a 70 mile ride, it was 8.63. Headlight was barely on, but the bike still idled at red lights. I trickle charged another battery and put that in for the ride on Sunday in the reverse direction. Same deal, but the battery was around 11.6 afterwards.

    So I tried turning the multimeter to the diode test to see if the RR is showing anything. Never knew where this symbol was on the multi-meter or what it looked like. Have no idea what the numbers really mean, just that the 3 stator lead #'s were close to the same. When the negative probe touches the negative lead and the red probe touches the 3 stator lead the # 1 appears?
    When I put the positive (red probe) to negative lead on R/R and use the negative probe on the 3 stator leads, I'm getting a consistent # of around 546.
    When the negative probe touches red wire coming out of R/R I see a larger number 972. I tried 2 R/R's of unknown history, with one on my not often used bike with the Caltric Stator I mentioned in another electrical post and one I have as a spare, both look like stock 1150 R/R's with the spade leads coming out. Actually the spare has 5 wires coming out, no spades, but similar shape. All stator leads were around the same # 540-550ish, not sure that's an acceptable number or not.

    I tried some sort of Ohm test on the stator leads, but can't explain what I did, something with touching one probe to ground and touching the other to the 3 leads, then, touching both probes to the 3 stator leads one at a time. Not sure what Ohm setting to use on the multimeter it has- 20M, 200k, 2k, 200. It's an Innova 3310.

    Ordering a new stator and R/R, but was trying to understand what's at fault. Me, then what or both.
    GS\'s since 1982: 55OMZ, 550ES, 750ET, (2) 1100ET\'s, 1100S, 1150ES. Current ride is an 83 Katana. Wifes bike is an 84 GS 1150ES

    #2
    Hope the RR you ordered is a Series type. Did you read the sticky note at the top of this section?
    sigpicMrBill Been a GSR member on and off since April 2002
    1980 GS 750E Bought new in Feb of 1980
    2015 CAN AM RTS


    Stuff I've done to my bike:dancing: 1100E front end with new Sonic springs, 1100E swing arm conversion with new Progressive shocks installed, 530 sprockets/chain conversion, new SS brake lines, new brake pads. New SS fasteners through out. Rebuilt carbs, new EBC clutch springs and horn installed. New paint. Motor runs strong.

    Comment


      #3
      The diode test will tell you if the diodes are working in one direction as these should. Most R/R that I tested will give you numbers somewhere at .3-.5 and in the other direction you should get nothing. Your numbers should all be close to each other as say one leg gives you .455 the next .458 and the third .454. All three are in the same ball park and in the .3-.5 range. Testing the other lead should do the same, but don't be surprised if the numbers are higher or lower yet still fall in the .3-.5 range, such as .535, .533 .538. My multimeter a Bluepoint DMSC683MP and gives me an OL in the opposite direction. If I get a number on any of the diodes instead of an OL, the diode is bad and the R/R is junk. One bad apple as it were. Also in diode mode, mine doesn't give you an ohm option, it's digital and picks what it thinks it needs. There is a range button, but I haven't had to force it in a range, that may be called for in a manual.
      :cool:GSRick
      No God, no peace. Know God, know peace.

      Eric Bang RIP 9/5/2018
      Have some bikes ready for us when we meet up.

      Comment


        #4
        I would not bother trying to ohm out the R/R. The best way to check whether the bike is charging properly is to start at the stator and measure the voltage there will the bike running, as per the service manual. If that checks out fine, reconnect the stator to the R/R (bypassing the loop up through the harness if you haven't already) and test the voltage coming out of the R/R, also with the bike running. I believe you'll be looking for something like 14 V @ 5000 rpm, but don't quote me on that. The service manual will say for sure.

        This only takes a few minutes and will tell you exactly what the issue is, instead of just throwing parts at it.

        Also, posplayr has a charging system quick test somewhere around here that will help narrow down the cause efficiently as well.
        Last edited by eil; 02-15-2017, 04:34 PM.
        Charles
        --
        1979 Suzuki GS850G

        Read BassCliff's GSR Greeting and Mega-Welcome!

        Comment


          #5
          Actually the best way to diagnose is to IGNORE THE MANUAL and follow Stator pages. There have been various refinements that are not captured in the OEM manual.


          Because people can get lost in the details of the stator pages, the Quick test allows members here to keep the OP focused.


          Even your suggestion to start at the stator is flawed because there is no affirmative test that the stator is absolutely working especially the leg to leg tests. The leg to groudn tests have been demonstrated to be far more reliable that leg to leg which is all the manual describes.

          Originally posted by eil View Post
          I would not bother trying to ohm out the R/R. The best way to check whether the bike is charging properly is to start at the stator and measure the voltage there will the bike running, as per the service manual. If that checks out fine, reconnect the stator to the R/R (bypassing the loop up through the harness if you haven't already) and test the voltage coming out of the R/R, also with the bike running. I believe you'll be looking for something like 14 V @ 5000 rpm, but don't quote me on that. The service manual will say for sure.

          This only takes a few minutes and will tell you exactly what the issue is, instead of just throwing parts at it.

          Also, posplayr has a charging system quick test somewhere around here that will help narrow down the cause efficiently as well.
          Last edited by posplayr; 02-15-2017, 05:02 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Start with posplayr's quick test - report all 6 results on here for clues



            to test stator, disconnect the 3 leads from from the r/r. Set your innova meter on 200 volts AC... Run engine at about 4000rpm. Put meter probes across two stator leads at a time - you want about 60+ volts AC from all combination. Then while still running,stick one probe on any stator lead and other probe on good bike ground.... best to see almost no volts displayed on meter (this sorta indicates that stator is insulated from ground and hasn't shorted out.)
            1981 gs650L

            "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for the replies. I guess it's sorta like starting an essay.

              I think the best option for me is to attempt the tests on the bike that starts.
              I'll try this on the ES.
              GS\'s since 1982: 55OMZ, 550ES, 750ET, (2) 1100ET\'s, 1100S, 1150ES. Current ride is an 83 Katana. Wifes bike is an 84 GS 1150ES

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Carter Turk View Post
                Thanks for the replies. I guess it's sorta like starting an essay.

                I think the best option for me is to attempt the tests on the bike that starts.
                I'll try this on the ES.
                While there is uncertainty in trying to diagnose the electrical system, a scientific approach to deal with that uncertainty is contained in the referenced links. The only way to develop an alternate opinion(essay) is to ignore the science.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by posplayr View Post
                  While there is uncertainty in trying to diagnose the electrical system, a scientific approach to deal with that uncertainty is contained in the referenced links. The only way to develop an alternate opinion(essay) is to ignore the science.
                  I was making the comparison that writing the first word is difficult.

                  12.93V at rest, key off, after overnight trickle charge
                  11.82V key on
                  Saw a # in the 10's at one point, attempting to start on pri for a few moments, then checking volts
                  Engine on, around 12V at idle
                  5000rpms = 13.32V
                  Stator (Caltric a few months old) @ 75 V @5000 rpm's all 3 legs (I think?)
                  I forgot to check the ground to stator.
                  GS\'s since 1982: 55OMZ, 550ES, 750ET, (2) 1100ET\'s, 1100S, 1150ES. Current ride is an 83 Katana. Wifes bike is an 84 GS 1150ES

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Went back out to garage and tested the ground.
                    The frame vs. engine ground seemed to change the readings. .
                    I put the negative probe to the frame at a non rusty spot, red on each leg at idle
                    I'm seeing .1 on two legs and .0 on the other.
                    The multi-meter was still on ACV-200
                    GS\'s since 1982: 55OMZ, 550ES, 750ET, (2) 1100ET\'s, 1100S, 1150ES. Current ride is an 83 Katana. Wifes bike is an 84 GS 1150ES

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Carter Turk View Post
                      Went back out to garage and tested the ground.
                      The frame vs. engine ground seemed to change the readings. .
                      I put the negative probe to the frame at a non rusty spot, red on each leg at idle
                      I'm seeing .1 on two legs and .0 on the other.
                      The multi-meter was still on ACV-200
                      Side note on the ground - I had a small issue even after replacing my R/R. I connect all floating grounds to hard grounds to battery. By floating, anything that is not welded to the frame/bolted to engine...like the plate my R/R sits on that had grounds for EVERYTHING screwed to it...not making contact to the actual frame due to ITS NOT CONNECT TO THE FRAME EXCEPT BY A LITTLE SLIP ON PIECE... new ground wiring and making sure everything had a good path made all the difference in the world. Sounds overkill but I'm with them on the ground issues and the importance of a good ground system. Not a bad idea to replace old wiring all together.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Carter Turk View Post
                        I was making the comparison that writing the first word is difficult.

                        12.93V at rest, key off, after overnight trickle charge
                        11.82V key on
                        Saw a # in the 10's at one point, attempting to start on pri for a few moments, then checking volts
                        Engine on, around 12V at idle
                        5000rpms = 13.32V
                        Stator (Caltric a few months old) @ 75 V @5000 rpm's all 3 legs (I think?)
                        I forgot to check the ground to stator.
                        One of the most important checks is a comparison of voltage at 2500 and 5000 rpm.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Leg to ground tests are at 5k rpm

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Ok, I did a couple of things wrong then.
                            13.3 V at 5K doesn't sound very good regardless right?
                            Doubt it was much more than at idle @2.5k
                            GS\'s since 1982: 55OMZ, 550ES, 750ET, (2) 1100ET\'s, 1100S, 1150ES. Current ride is an 83 Katana. Wifes bike is an 84 GS 1150ES

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Carter Turk View Post
                              Ok, I did a couple of things wrong then.
                              13.3 V at 5K doesn't sound very good regardless right?
                              Doubt it was much more than at idle @2.5k
                              If V @ 2.5K RPM is higher than V @ 5K RPM it usually means the connections are dirty.

                              Do do you have a bad stator or bad connections?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X