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**gsrick** · 08-01-2017, 01:08 PM

I don't know if it worth it or not, because the L is not one of the most popular models, but the 450S is a blast to ride in the upper rpms, that may be also. If it is for your pleasure and not for trying to make a few bucks, go for it. If you are looking to make some money off it, part it out.

**John Park** · 08-01-2017, 02:13 PM

You might be able to scavenge an advance unit, points plate and such from an earlier model GS [twins and fours are the same except for the coils] and wire around the igniter as per a '79 diagram for a lot less money than an igniter. I've considered having the parts on hand for just such an emergency.

If you don't sabotage the original wiring - any more than it is already - you could always go back to stock later.

All you need is power to the coils from the ign switch and two wires down to the points/condensers. Delightfully primitive.

**Nessism** · 08-01-2017, 03:36 PM

Retrofitting to a points ignition is a great suggestion assuming you can find the appropriate parts. Some research is in order to figure out if the GS400 parts would fit on a 450. The earlier motor is quite different in many regards so it's not a given.

Oh, and a Dyna S is about $130 so that's your cost baseline.

**tom203** · 08-01-2017, 03:46 PM

"since my father bought the bike about 5 years ago taken apart,"

It would be nice to know why it was taken apart... Must have had some issue besides electrical gremlins. Maybe you're better off parting it out and moving on to an unmolested candidate.

**jstoner930** · 08-01-2017, 06:28 PM

"It would be nice to know why it was taken apart... Must have had some issue besides electrical gremlins. Maybe you're better off parting it out and moving on to an unmolested candidate."

I agree. It would be nice. Unfortunately, the only info that I have is that the starter was bad and the PO had somehow thought that gluing the magnets back together would be a good fix... Got a new starter and bolted it in. Carbs had been taken off, and when I went through them looked like they had been cleaned pretty recently. I didn't have a key, so I hot wired the ignition into the on position, and connected the battery. Then came the smoke.

"Some research is in order to figure out if the GS400 parts would fit on a 450."

I think that the points conversion would be cool, but I wouldn't even know where to start on checking cross-compatibility. Plus, like you said, I've read somewhere that the newer 450's were completely redesigned, different crank, shorter stroke, larger bore. Maybe the electronics are compatible, but that kinda seems like a longshot to throw money at. If one of you guys has an extra setup around or knows someplace to get them cheap, I'd be willing to give it a try, but I haven't messed with points much.

**Nessism** · 08-01-2017, 06:54 PM

35 year old bikes are best for guys that enjoy wrenching and have some money to invest. It's not unusual to spend $1000 or even more rehabbing an old bike. Tires and tubes are $200. Chain and sprockets are $150. $75 for a battery. Brake lines, pads, rebuild kits another $200. Etc, etc. It's a labor of love...but not for everyone.

**John Park** · 08-01-2017, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by jstoner930 View Post

"It would be nice to know why it was taken apart... Must have had some issue besides electrical gremlins. Maybe you're better off parting it out and moving on to an unmolested candidate."

"Some research is in order to figure out if the GS400 parts would fit on a 450."

I think that the points conversion would be cool, but I wouldn't even know where to start on checking cross-compatibility. Plus, like you said, I've read somewhere that the newer 450's were completely redesigned, different crank, shorter stroke, larger bore. Maybe the electronics are compatible, but that kinda seems like a longshot to throw money at. If one of you guys has an extra setup around or knows someplace to get them cheap, I'd be willing to give it a try, but I haven't messed with points much.

Robbing the advance and trigger plate from a newer bike was a common way to 'upgrade' the ignition back in the day, so reversing the procedure should be simple. I've never done it, but have a points plate and an old advance mech around and could check if you'd like. I don't think Suzuki got overly creative when they made the move; they just put a magnetic rotor on the old mechanism and triggers where the points used to be and wired the igniter box in.

I'd also be tempted to go with the later system from the GS500 as it's still available new and used and has a digital advance [fixed rotor] as opposed to the mechanical you have. It seems pretty bulletproof as opposed to the transitional system they used in the early '80s. Go points or go modern is my idea. This and the Shindengen SH775 regulator/rectifier and an AGM battery pretty much give you modern automotive electrical reliability.

As yet, I'm still running the original ignition, but - like the original R/R - won't miss it when it's gone.

**Steve** · 08-01-2017, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by jstoner930 View Post

I didn't have a key, so I hot wired the ignition into the on position, and connected the battery. Then came the smoke.

I really like this.

Since you don't know all that much about motorcycles, how can you GUARANTEE that you actually hotwired the ignition into the ON position, and not something else?

What did you connect to what? Even if you don't know what the parts are called, at least give a good description of where they are and what the look like, we can figure it out from there.

One possibility that comes to my mind is that you might have connected a power line to the wrong side of the coil, which would have sent FULL current, as a direct short, straight to the ignitor. Yes, full voltage is applied to the OTHER side of the coils, which will then limit the current through the ignitor. Without the resistance of the coils to limit the current, the ignitor will be forced to handle whatever the battery and your jumper wire can supply.

.

**posplayr** · 08-01-2017, 11:44 PM

Well he did describe it as a "hot wire"

**jstoner930** · 08-02-2017, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Steve View Post

I really like this.

Since you don't know all that much about motorcycles, how can you GUARANTEE that you actually hotwired the ignition into the ON position, and not something else?

What did you connect to what? Even if you don't know what the parts are called, at least give a good description of where they are and what the look like, we can figure it out from there.

One possibility that comes to my mind is that you might have connected a power line to the wrong side of the coil, which would have sent FULL current, as a direct short, straight to the ignitor. Yes, full voltage is applied to the OTHER side of the coils, which will then limit the current through the ignitor. Without the resistance of the coils to limit the current, the ignitor will be forced to handle whatever the battery and your jumper wire can supply.

.

I know plenty about motorcycles. I rebuilt a 1981 Honda CB750, including the wiring, when I was 18. It works flawlessly. I also redid some electrical and added a module to get around the CAN BUS system on my dad's '11 Harley softail. I wired my own custom speedo console onto my Harley sportster. Incidentally, that also hasn't given me any problems. Oh, and I just went through the wiring on my 87 Jeep. That works great too. This isn't a job interview, but I have a resume if you'd like to hear it. Maybe I'm just young and dumb and don't know what I'm talking about. Or I'm misinterpreting the tone of your post completely and being a delicate snowflake. Or I made a mistake. Which is entirely possible, but if you're going to assume something, at least bother reading my post.

All I'm looking for, is why the igniter would have smoked when all I did was cut out the ignition switch, and (using the wiring diagram) wired the ignition to the "ON" position. Maybe I made some fatal error, but I sincerely doubt it. I probably should have hooked in a switch instead of twisting the wires together, but it was just a quick trial run. Nothing was hooked up long enough to overheat the coils (for example) or do some other damage. If you're aware of some reason why this shouldn't have worked, I'd love to hear it. But from my perspective, as long as the factory wiring works, this should have worked.

"I've never done it, but have a points plate and an old advance mech around and could check if you'd like. I don't think Suzuki got overly creative when they made the move; they just put a magnetic rotor on the old mechanism and triggers where the points used to be and wired the igniter box in."

John Park, that would be awesome if you could check. I don't have any extra parts for this bike floating around like I do for my others. I'm thinking there might be another box in my dad's shop, but I'd have to go digging. Knowing that it's at least an option would be nice. Also, I personally like the idea of upgrading to modern ignition. However, my brother is the one bankrolling this, as he wants to have something fun to ride around town. So I'm just trying to get it going without a huge bill. He doesn't really appreciate working on a vintage bike yet, but I'm hoping to introduce him to the addiction.

**salty_monk** · 08-02-2017, 03:18 PM

There is no good reason why the smoke got out (you know electricity is smoke right?)

If the wiring follows the wiring diag I would suspect something to be shorted (either to the frame or a neighbouring wire).

The Dyna is a very good robust system in my experience. You can actually wire it in independently of the main wiring harness to test it easily enough (if you use a relay for the coils you'll get a better spark). There is lots of info on here for installing these things.

**Steve** · 08-02-2017, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by jstoner930 View Post

I know plenty about motorcycles. ...

My apologies.

I read a fair number of posts here looking for help, yours sounded a lot like another poster that admitted he was new to motorcycles and not very mechanically inclined. I lost track of who was who.

The ignitors on these bikes are usually rather robust, but are not immune from failure. As I pointed out in my post, about the only way to fry one by bypassing the ignition key would be to also bypass the coil. It appears that it was merely coincidence that your ignitor chose this time to fail.

.

**Cipher** · 08-02-2017, 07:43 PM

apologize me arse! the kid is arrogant and less than knowledgeable.

The 450 igniter is similar enough to the 550s to allow you that as a point of departure to do some actual research.
550 has an IC that is a point of failure
youtube it for the fix
then see if it applies to a 450 or 400 or whatever

if you can lessen your arrogance enough.

**jstoner930** · 08-03-2017, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by Cipher View Post

apologize me arse! the kid is arrogant and less than knowledgeable.

The 450 igniter is similar enough to the 550s to allow you that as a point of departure to do some actual research.
550 has an IC that is a point of failure
youtube it for the fix
then see if it applies to a 450 or 400 or whatever

if you can lessen your arrogance enough.

Sorry I came across that way. I've been on a lot of forums, and done a lot of research the last couple days. Doesn't excuse me being rude, but regardless, I apologize.

That was actually one of my thoughts. If the ignition coil was shot, would that have caused the igniter to behave the way it did?

Is there a way to test the coils that are on the bike without the igniter hooked up?

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Igniter toast? Possibly rebuild it?

Igniter toast? Possibly rebuild it?

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