No power? Bad starter relay solenoid?

[Guest]

Hello! I'm new to motorcycles. I've just finished putting this machine back together (Suzuki gs450 L) and I went to turn the key, and no power. I poked around with my voltage meter and found voltage from battery to solenoid, but the other two connections have no readings. I get no lights on, acts like battery doesn't exist.

If I touch the two posts together with wire, I get a click and then I stopped because I did not want to accidentally hot wire the bike.

I've not checked the ignition cylinder for power. Is it likely I just have a bad starter motor solenoid? The bike sat for 6 years, and I'm sure it was rained on several times, not sure if that matters. I thought maybe it was a bad ground, so I made a new one and no changes.

Any suggestions or advice?

[fastbysuzuki]

Hi a very basic check, have you tested the fuse or fuses? Need to know that first before moving on.

[alke46]

Do you have power to the horn, turn signals and lights? If so, and you can hear the solenoid click when the starter button is pressed, try tapping the solenoid with whatever you have handy. Screwdriver handle is all that is necessary to get mine to start cranking.

I don't know how to link to other posts, but in the electrical forum, check out my last two threads concerning this problem and I think you will find the answer to some of the replies I got from some of the forum members.

I just got home yesterday and found a new solenoid in my mail box that will be going on my bike this week. Good luck with yours.

[alke46]

"No start again" and "Main electrical help wanted".

These are the two threads I made reference to. I do think these two will help you find your problem.

[TinkersCustom]

Do you have power to the horn, turn signals and lights? If so, and you can hear the solenoid click when the starter button is pressed, try tapping the solenoid with whatever you have handy. Screwdriver handle is all that is necessary to get mine to start cranking.

I don't know how to link to other posts, but in the electrical forum, check out my last two threads concerning this problem and I think you will find the answer to some of the replies I got from some of the forum members.

I just got home yesterday and found a new solenoid in my mail box that will be going on my bike this week. Good luck with yours.

Right. No horn, no lights in my gauges, no clicks. When you move the key just nothing. I cannot locate any visible fuses. Can you tell me where they are located? There is a black box on the side with the rectifier that is sealed up, from what I Google that is the fuse box, but it can not be opened.

So I am either not looking in the correct place or there is not one. If I touch the two ends with a screw driver I get a spark and some noise. I'm trying to avoid starting it incorrectly as she's sat for 6 years.

I have removed all wires from the relay hit it with a hammer, cleaned up the connections and tried, nothing still. I added a second ground so just incase the one to the engine block was no good. New battery, new wires (made new ones old ones were corroded and gross.)

Relay solenoid?

[TinkersCustom]

Here are some pictures.

https://imgur.com/gallery/47cmX

[bsharpish]

I had a similar issue - its was the clutch switch interlock which runs from a microswitch on the clutch perch into the headlight shell and from there (via the harness) to the solenoid

looped it out (until I got a new one) and hey presto

wires are yellow and yellow/green from memory

[TinkersCustom]

Hmm if I post some pics can you point the stuff out to me? Thanks for the info. Would this also affect the key not turning on any dash lights?

[TinkersCustom]

While investigating the headlight I found this...

Hmm https://imgur.com/gallery/HPiv5

[fastbysuzuki]

Been looking at the wiring diagram for a 450L it shows one fuse 15amp it is fitted inline on the smaller red wire coming from the battery positive it tees off to the ignition switch and the regulator/rectifier. This may explain no power anywhere.
i think it is located under L/H frame cover.

[Eule]

If you have a 2017 GS450L, then somebody hacked your engine computer via the built-in Bluetooth, and you need a $500 firmware update at the dealer before it will start again.

If you have a 1905 GS450L, your trembler coil is probably shot. You'll have to take it off the bike and ride your horse down to the dealer for a new one.

However, if you have a GS450L from the early 1980s, it might only have one fuse. (Later models have several fuses in a box, but earlier models don't have that box.) There should be two wires coming off of the battery positive terminal. The fatter one should go straight to the starter relay. (I can see that one in your picture.) The skinnier one should go to the fuse. It will be an inline fuse in a holder, which normally looks like a plastic cylinder about 0.5" diameter and about 2" long in the middle of the wire. The plastic is usually pure white or milky white, but it could be black or some other color. You can open this plastic cylinder to reveal a glass fuse, 0.25" diameter by 1.25" long. If that fuse is blown, nothing on the bike will work. The inline fuse holder should be relatively close to the battery, in the same general area shown in your pictures - within a few inches of the battery, somewhere.

Note that a previous owner may have taped over the fuse holder when repairing the harness - the fuse holder might still be there, but buried under a layer of electrical tape. They may have also cut the fuse holder out of the circuit completely and just spliced the two wire ends that *used* to go to the fuse holder together. In that case, either that splice is bad, or you have some other problem. There is a very small, but nonzero, chance that they replaced it with a blade fuse holder - in that case, you either have about a 1" square by 0.25" thick rubber lump in the middle of a wire, or you should be able to *see* the plastic end of a fuse (probably red or blue plastic) sticking out of the holder. If you have the rubber lump, part of the rubber pulls away so you can see and replace the fuse.

The fact that you get some action when you jump the two big stud terminals at the starter relay with a piece of wire means that your battery isn't totally shot and that the wire from the - terminal of the battery to the engine case is at least somewhat working. If you did that same action on a bike where everything was working perfectly, you'd end up running the starter motor, but the engine wouldn't start (because there would be no power to the ignition coils). If you contemplate jumping those two terminals again, make real sure that the bike is in neutral, or the rear wheel is off the ground, first. If you don't do that, the bike will go for a journey without you. (Jumping those terminals bypasses all the normal safety switches on a bike, like the neutral switch, side stand switch, etc.)

Also, go here http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/ and see if you can find a wiring diagram, owner's manual, or service manual that matches your bike. It's best to get one as close to the year of your bike as you can... the different years are similar but *not* all the same.

I hope this helps!

Eule

[TinkersCustom]

Just a update and quick question. I found two grounds at the headlight bucket not connected. I also have found the clutch switch is chopped and twisted together. I did not do this, is there any reason someone might do this? Clearly intended as the cut is so close.

Cut clutch switch? https://imgur.com/gallery/aszF1

Edit:looks like this is just a way to bypass having to hold the clutch when starting the bike? The previous owner left it taped to the handle bar. Not sure why he didn't just butt connector it and tape it and stuff in the headlight,if that was the case.

[TinkersCustom]

If you have a 2017 GS450L, then somebody hacked your engine computer via the built-in Bluetooth, and you need a $500 firmware update at the dealer before it will start again.

If you have a 1905 GS450L, your trembler coil is probably shot. You'll have to take it off the bike and ride your horse down to the dealer for a new one.

However, if you have a GS450L from the early 1980s, it might only have one fuse. (Later models have several fuses in a box, but earlier models don't have that box.) There should be two wires coming off of the battery positive terminal. The fatter one should go straight to the starter relay. (I can see that one in your picture.) The skinnier one should go to the fuse. It will be an inline fuse in a holder, which normally looks like a plastic cylinder about 0.5" diameter and about 2" long in the middle of the wire. The plastic is usually pure white or milky white, but it could be black or some other color. You can open this plastic cylinder to reveal a glass fuse, 0.25" diameter by 1.25" long. If that fuse is blown, nothing on the bike will work. The inline fuse holder should be relatively close to the battery, in the same general area shown in your pictures - within a few inches of the battery, somewhere.

Note that a previous owner may have taped over the fuse holder when repairing the harness - the fuse holder might still be there, but buried under a layer of electrical tape. They may have also cut the fuse holder out of the circuit completely and just spliced the two wire ends that *used* to go to the fuse holder together. In that case, either that splice is bad, or you have some other problem. There is a very small, but nonzero, chance that they replaced it with a blade fuse holder - in that case, you either have about a 1" square by 0.25" thick rubber lump in the middle of a wire, or you should be able to *see* the plastic end of a fuse (probably red or blue plastic) sticking out of the holder. If you have the rubber lump, part of the rubber pulls away so you can see and replace the fuse.

The fact that you get some action when you jump the two big stud terminals at the starter relay with a piece of wire means that your battery isn't totally shot and that the wire from the - terminal of the battery to the engine case is at least somewhat working. If you did that same action on a bike where everything was working perfectly, you'd end up running the starter motor, but the engine wouldn't start (because there would be no power to the ignition coils). If you contemplate jumping those two terminals again, make real sure that the bike is in neutral, or the rear wheel is off the ground, first. If you don't do that, the bike will go for a journey without you. (Jumping those terminals bypasses all the normal safety switches on a bike, like the neutral switch, side stand switch, etc.)

Also, go here http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/ and see if you can find a wiring diagram, owner's manual, or service manual that matches your bike. It's best to get one as close to the year of your bike as you can... the different years are similar but *not* all the same.

I hope this helps!

Eule

Thank you for the information. I was missing the power to the harness. I'll be adding a fuse box in at that location and connecting to battery! Wasn't labeled, was a broken wire just chilling. But it goes to the ignition cylinder, verified by volt meter.

[Eule]

Edit:looks like this is just a way to bypass having to hold the clutch when starting the bike?

That's exactly what it is. Maybe the clutch switch stopped working and somebody did that so they could start the bike; maybe a previous owner installed a kewl custom billet chrome anodized carbon-fiber racing clutch lever on it that didn't have a place for the switch; maybe the switch is actually OK and you aren't the first person to try to troubleshoot why the bike wouldn't start.

Not sure why he didn't just butt connector it and tape it and stuff in the headlight,if that was the case.

"This is only temporary, unless it works."

Eule

[Eule]

I was missing the power to the harness. I'll be adding a fuse box in at that location and connecting to battery!

If your bike originally had just one in-line fuse, then a new in-line fuse holder is all you really need. If you're not a stickler for historical accuracy, you might consider installing a blade-type fuse holder - the blade fuses are (very) slightly easier to find at the store. Get the one for the blade fuses that are about 1" wide (ATC fuses), not the new ones that are 0.5" wide (ATM fuses). A holder like a Bussmann HHD or HHF ( http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...07_HHC_HHD.pdf ) or equal is good; it will cost around $3 at the local general store and (confusingly) about $4 or $5 at the auto parts store. (The 1" wide ones came on the scene around 1980 and are everywhere now. The 0.5" wide ones came through around 2000 and are at the car parts store and the general store, but not necessarily at the quick-mart or truck stop yet.)

If you want to install a fuse box (for multiple fuses) in contemplation of future accessories, then that's up to you. Same considerations on fuse type as above apply.

Most likely you need to put a 15 amp fuse in whatever fuse holder you install. Get a box of spare fuses, too, and keep them on the bike - if that one fuse ever blows, nothing on the bike will work.

The second time that 15 amp fuse blows, you will be sorely tempted to go get a 20 amp or 30 amp or even (gulp) a 40 amp fuse and stick it in there. Do everything you can to resist that temptation! That 30 amp fuse won't blow... but the next weakest thing in the electrical system will!

Eule