Turn Signals Weak Until Throttle is Blipped

[posplayr]

AND THE VERDICT IS..................... Seemingly a bad R/R

Quick Test Results:

Battery at start: 12.4V

Key On/Lights on: 12.00

At Idle: 12.5-12.6 and then after a few moments 13.0-13.1

At 2500 RPM: Dropped to 12.6-12.8

At 5000 RPM: Same as 2500 RPM
(When let idle again the voltage would climb to 13.0-13.1)

Immediately after quick test battery read 12.8 (After about 2-3 minutes at idle)

Stator Test Results:

All three connections are putting out 86.6ish volts (readings are literally within a few tenths of each other)

R/R Test Results:

All tests produced zero readings on my multi-meter.

So, just for verification...the reason I am getting charging at idle is because the R/R isn't trying to dump extra voltage at this point and is in essence "bypassed" during idle. However, when the voltage is raised through higher RPMs then the R/R is supposed to regulate how much voltage gets to the rest of the system and is not doing so Rather it is "dumping" all of the current instead of sending some of it to the charging system and then dumping the excess. Does this sound about right? And if this is correct, then I should order a used SH775BA R/R from ebay and install it...correct?

If this is all headed in the right direction then is the SH775 a plug and play R/R or will I need some sort of conversion kit?

So there you have it. The results of little deeper digging and what I think are some pretty definitive results from the Stator Paper testing files. Let me know if I'm missing anything else and as always...thanks.

I would see if your stator is any good. You should do the leg to ground tests at 5K RPM. That is probably the best test that exists for stator testing. The leg to leg tests are good but not conclusive. The leg to ground tests may not be 100% but much better than leg to leg.

Read your theory about the R/R. It is possible but why guess. exclude teh stator before pointing the finger at the R/R. If it is shunt it should go, but replacing it with a bad stator won't help much.

[DragonRider]

I will do the leg to ground test tomorrow and post results. If the stator proves good should I then replace the R/R? From what I can see it is original to the bike.

[posplayr]

I will do the leg to ground test tomorrow and post results. If the stator proves good should I then replace the R/R? From what I can see it is original to the bike.

You should replace the R/R it in either case(but especially if you have a burned stator), but one change at a time. Check the stator first.

[Steve]

Changing to an SH775 R/R is not quite "plug and play", but it's not all that hard.

In your stock wiring, you likely have two stator wires that go to the stock R/R, the third one disappears into the harness, then comes back to the R/R. Disconnect that needless loop, all three stator wires should connect directly to the R/R. When I say "directly", please don't get the idea that connectors are not allowed. They are. Just don't take any detours through other connectors.

When you remove your stock R/R, note where the red output wire connects. When you install the 775, connect the output wire there, too.

The 775 is larger than the stock R/R, so you might have to move something around to get it mounted. Not a problem, just put it where it fits, run enough wire to make the proper connections.

.

[DragonRider]

The stator is good according to every test in the stator papers. The R/R is not according to every test in the stator papers. I have inserted two pics of R/R that I removed from my bike. Does this look to be the original? The bike as between 38k-40K on it. I've also included a single pic of the bike...it's not the best one and there will be more bike pics to come in the proper thread but I wanted to get at least one in here. So, it looks like the R/R will be replaced hopefully within the week. I did take the bike out for a few miles today because I just couldn't stand it any longer. I probably have some carb work to do but it was running better this evening during testing at higher RPMs. It had some hiccups trying to get over 4000 RPMs on my ride but after some more fresh fuel and little bit of Arch Oil 6200 seemed to clear up and revved just fine during my last set of testing this evening. Anyways, here are the pics...looking forward to feedback and I'll keep everyone posted from my end.
R-R Pic 2.jpg

[DragonRider]

Second R/R pic.

R-R Pic 1.jpg

[DragonRider]

Bike pic.

Bike Pic.jpg

BTW: If i go into advanced can I post more than one pic at a time. No big if I can't just keeps me from having all these short posts with one pic.

[posplayr]

The stator is good according to every test in the stator papers. The R/R is not according to every test in the stator papers. I have inserted two pics of R/R that I removed from my bike. Does this look to be the original? The bike as between 38k-40K on it. I've also included a single pic of the bike...it's not the best one and there will be more bike pics to come in the proper thread but I wanted to get at least one in here. So, it looks like the R/R will be replaced hopefully within the week. I did take the bike out for a few miles today because I just couldn't stand it any longer. I probably have some carb work to do but it was running better this evening during testing at higher RPMs. It had some hiccups trying to get over 4000 RPMs on my ride but after some more fresh fuel and little bit of Arch Oil 6200 seemed to clear up and revved just fine during my last set of testing this evening. Anyways, here are the pics...looking forward to feedback and I'll keep everyone posted from my end.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]55411[/ATTACH]

i can't assess that conclusion.

[DragonRider]

Posplayr: I ran ALL (including the OHMS tests) of the stator phase B tests according to the Stator Papers Fault Finding chart. Leg to Leg I was getting within tenths of a volt for all three legs...in the 86.6 volts at 5000 RPM. Leg to ground (as you suggested) produced .4 volts for each leg which if I understand is a negligible reading. When I ran the R/R tests as prescribed by the Stator Papers all the results were indicating that the R/R is bad. I did not record every result but I did have the Stator Papers in front of me and checked my results against the Fault Finding chart. If there is any more information that you need to give me any further advice just let me know. I just want to get this issue with my bike resolved so I can take it out for more than a 5 mile, around the block run without worrying about ruining the battery and getting stranded. Have a good night.

[posplayr]

Posplayr: I ran ALL (including the OHMS tests) of the stator phase B tests according to the Stator Papers Fault Finding chart. Leg to Leg I was getting within tenths of a volt for all three legs...in the 86.6 volts at 5000 RPM. Leg to ground (as you suggested) produced .4 volts for each leg which if I understand is a negligible reading. When I ran the R/R tests as prescribed by the Stator Papers all the results were indicating that the R/R is bad. I did not record every result but I did have the Stator Papers in front of me and checked my results against the Fault Finding chart. If there is any more information that you need to give me any further advice just let me know. I just want to get this issue with my bike resolved so I can take it out for more than a 5 mile, around the block run without worrying about ruining the battery and getting stranded. Have a good night.

The leg to ground numbers are what I was looking for. Unfortunately, the Phase B tests results are generally not as cut and dried as in your case. The leg to ground are probably 99.5% reliable where as the leg to leg are 80% reliable. The ohmmeter is probaly 25% reliable which basically ,means worse than worthless.

There are better tests that require special test equipment (megger) but people generally don't have one of those. There are available though for well under $100.

A summary here

https://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?223164-FIRST-and-SECOND-LAW-of-Stator-testing&highlight=Stator+test

[DragonRider]

Thanks Posplayr for the info. I appreciate you taking the time to read all my posts, ask for more info from me when needed and passing on the advice. I will definitely look into a megger if a new R/R doesn't take care of the issue. However, I'm on a pretty tight budget right now. I'm a science teacher and definitely understand the concepts of electricity but have never been faced with having to deal with much when it came to wrenching before. I'll keep everyone posted as to the results of replacing the R/R.

[DragonRider]

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. The R/R (SH775) showed up on Wednesday and was installed that evening. It even fit in the original placement of the previous R/R. Harness arrived on Friday (thanks to Triumph of Detroit who were willing to ship) and I spent yesterday and this morning getting everything spliced, soldered, covered with heat shrink and covered with split and spiral loom. Hooked everything up, fired up the bike and "Viola!" 14 - 14.1 volts at 2500 and 5000 RPMs. Still drops a cylinder until it gets warmed up. Idles way low (500 RPMs) but after giving it the beans a few times with the throttle it picks up the last cylinder and purrs at 1000-1100 RPMs. The original blinker issue is there until it picks up idle and idles at the specified rate of 1000-1100 RPMs...then the blinker works fine. At such a low idle, the bike cannot produce enough voltage for headlight/tail light/blinker all at the same time. I'm pretty sure the cylinder dropping is a carb issue. I currently have Shell V-Power in the tank with Arch Oil AR6200 additive. My wife's uncle, who's been riding 50+ years says that if it's clearing up with high octane and gas treatment it should just keep getting better the more it's driven. He's had lots of bikes with sticky carbs that cleared up with high test and drive time. I'm hoping it will continue improving so I can ride now and not have to pull carbs until November. Thanks again everyone for your help. We are in a ridiculous heat wave here so I probably won't get my next ride in until Monday morning before the heat gets too much. Then I'll be riding every chance I get. MSF safety course scheduled for later in July. Pretty pumped right now. Also, I found three connections to the tail light and rear blinkers that were "twist and tape" connections. I promptly soldered and heat shrink wrapped those three connections as well. I plan on taking off all of the electrical tape one of these days and checking every single connection. I'm sure I'll have more soldering to do before this is over. I hope everyone has a great rest of the weekend.

[DragonRider]

One last question. Can I change out the headlight and tail light with LED and leave the blinkers incandescent to preserve the needed resistance? If this "mix-n-match" won't have a detrimental effect then I will probably do so to save on draw when all three are pulling on the charging system. That might help minimize the blinker issue even if the idle drops a little if the headlight and tail light are not drawing as much. Just a thought if anyone gets a chance to respond. Thanks again.

[posplayr]

One last question. Can I change out the headlight and tail light with LED and leave the blinkers incandescent to preserve the needed resistance? If this "mix-n-match" won't have a detrimental effect then I will probably do so to save on draw when all three are pulling on the charging system. That might help minimize the blinker issue even if the idle drops a little if the headlight and tail light are not drawing as much. Just a thought if anyone gets a chance to respond. Thanks again.

Yes you can mix and match that way. Depending on the blinkers bulbs, you are talking about 23 watts per or 46/12=4 amps. That is as much as the headlamp.

I guess you have researched the LED flasher change threads and the TSCU issues, so I won't try and persuade you much further into going ahead and just doing it all.


Good luck with the MSF, and happy 4th of July.