Latest on 1156/1157 Amber LED bulbs?

[suzukizone]

What's the latest skinny on Amber 1156/1157 bulbs. I have been trying various bulbs both white and amber on '81 GS850G w/ Vetter Windbreaking fairing with the 1157 on fairing for TS & Running lights functions. So far the only satisfactory bulb is the traditional tungsten type as to brightness & depth of color. All LEDs to date have been too pale, too weak though I love the reduced current load.

I see back in the day BassCliff touted the SuperBright LED offering for a $30 taillight bulb. They have an 1157 Amber LED but they are $10 a pop. I would rather not drop $40 (+S&H??) to get what I want in all TS positions F&R.

Has anyone come up with AMBER LED alternatives at a reasonable price? I just got a pair of 1157 LED from eBay. They were white.
(YES I know should have been amber but the amber LEDs to date haven't been good enough and thought since my tungsten bulbs are clear it is at least worth a try)

So have a $5.00 pair of nice enough LEDs to join my evergrowing LED collection but no closer to nirvana yet.

I did get some VERY spectacular auxiliary little LED running white and flashing red bulbs from Aerostitch and will review these in the Buyer Reviews Forum next day or two. These are incredible especially the rear facing flashers.

Await any & all replies especially from geezers on social security who cannot spend as freely as many here. Also have nice collection of LED bulbs for sale at closeout pricing!

I remain,

DH

[LAB3]

A quick eBay search shows plenty of incandescent 1156's, two for a buck.

[suzukizone]

A quick eBay search shows plenty of incandescent 1156's, two for a buck.

Thanks LAB3, Like I said I am right now using the tungsten bulbs. I proably have 10 or 12 1156 & 1157 in a drawer so a lifetime supply at my age.
They, as far as illumination needs have been the best & brightest BUT, I need to reduce current draw on my bike so trying to get LEDS into the system everywhere. So far none of the ones I have tried equal the color quality or brightness level of the old school bulbs. Hoping by now there has been an improvement in the breed.

Thanks,

DH

[posplayr]

I think the incondesents will always have more brightness, but the physiological effect on the LED "instant on" is as effective as the incandescent brightness.

I also have a box full of an assortment of LED bulbs from 2015. While headlamp bulbs have gotten better, I doubt 1156/1157 style have changed a lot.

https://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?232654-2015-LED-5050-Emitter-Bulb-Roundup&highlight=

[suzukizone]

I think the incondesents will always have more brightness, but the physiological effect on the LED "instant on" is as effective as the incandescent brightness.

I also have a box full of an assortment of LED bulbs from 2015. While headlamp bulbs have gotten better, I doubt 1156/1157 style have changed a lot.

https://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?232654-2015-LED-5050-Emitter-Bulb-Roundup&highlight=

Thanks posplayer for your take and the link to the Emitter bulb roundup thread.
You have confirmed my worst fears and dashed my dreams of a properly functioning LED universe. I am buying stock in a tungsten mine.

My mantra is, "I want what I want, when I want it, and at the price I want to pay". Sometimes I win and sometimes I use tungsten bulbs. I also look at these issues with the attitude of,
"Didn't we put a couple of dudes on the moon in 1969?????", or at least they say we did.

Perhaps they will upgrade acetylene miner's lamps at least.

Thanks!

DH

[posplayr]

I believe the headlamps are getting better. These are bright and they are only the 9600 lm. I put them on my 1997 Ford E-350 van.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GKWCYQD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There is also a set of These are 10,000 lm but supposed to be 100% more light. They cias more and have a bigger heat sink and fan.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XP253X3/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07XP253X3&pd_rd_w=GpSLF&pf_rd_p=45a72588-80f7-4414-9851-786f6c16d42b&pd_rd_wg=AFEzR&pf_rd_r=Z9SW59CAMXANBMMGA0AB&pd_rd_r=9fa866db-2291-464f-9bfc-b476476bf958&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFHWkNBTzBNNzlKVkQmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA4MTQ5ODZXS1RUUkVTUEZWN1cmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDE4NDk3NzIxVFZDS1gxVTA5UjYmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWwmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

[Steve]

I will offer my observations and comments regarding your question(s), but would also like some clarification on this:

... BUT, I need to reduce current draw on my bike ...

What is it that makes you feel you need to reduce the current draw? What is your draw now and what is your target?


Now, regarding your signals: As you have observed, incandescent bulbs seem to fill the housing with light better than the LEDs. The reason for that is that the reflector and lens inside the housing were designed for that bulb. The bulb's filament is in the focal point of the reflector, so the single point of light is spread quite evenly inside the housing. All the light then hits the back side of the lens, making it appear that the whole thing is lit up.

An LED replacement "bulb" does not have its emitters in the same location as a stock bulb. And, while a filament basically radiates in all directions, an LED is somewhat focused. That means you need more emitters to point light in more directions, which further removes them from the focal point of the reflector. The few emitters that are pointing directly pointing at the back of the lens will appear as a very bright light, but they fail to fill the rest of the lens area, so all you see is just a bright spot.

If you really want effective LED turn signals, look for something that is DESIGNED as an LED light. Most of them will not be a reflector/lens setup, they are direct-view, where you see the full effect.

There are also a couple other factors to consider in your quest for LED signals.
1. You WILL have to change the flasher unit. The stock unit relys on the (relatively) heavy current drawn by the incandescent bulb. Reduce the current by using LEDs and it simply won't flash. There is no other flasher unit that you can get for any other vehicle that will work. ONLY a flasher for a GS will work.
2. Changing to another flasher, you will lose the auto-cancel feature of your signals.
- If you are not worried about that, you will only need to change your flasher, but be aware that not just any flasher will work. And you will have to do some re-wiring to be able to use the new flasher.
- If you do want to keep the auto-cancel, you will have to get REAL creative with your electronic fabrication skills. You will still need the new flasher, but you will also need to install a relay to trick the control unit into controlling the new flasher.

By the way, I have installed LED signals all around on my '80 850G(K). The front signals will likely destroy the budget for the rest of your bike build. First, I had to find clear lenses to replace the lenses in my AERO fairing. (About $10 each.) You will not have that option with your Windjammer. I then installed Dynamic Ringz from Custom Dynamics. ($90 for the pair.) I also have several lights that I tried and rejected for the rear signals. I don't remember what's in there right now, but they do seem to work. I seem to remember they might have been about $25 for the pair.

I accepted an offer from another member to test a prototype relay, which has been installed for several years and is still working quite well. Not sure what it would cost to duplicate, but in my case, some research and testing would be involved, too. Overall, the total for my turn signal lighting is around $150, not counting the rejected units. Just to show how much I value my lighting, consider that I spent (wasted?) another $120 or so on a license plate frame that includes tail, brake and turn signals, $60 for a brake light modulator and $170 for an LED headlight. And that's not even counting the LED strips that bring out the Goldwinger in me.

.

[suzukizone]

I will offer my observations and comments regarding your question(s), but would also like some clarification on this:


What is it that makes you feel you need to reduce the current draw? What is your draw now and what is your target?


Now, regarding your signals: As you have observed, incandescent bulbs seem to fill the housing with light better than the LEDs. The reason for that is that the reflector and lens inside the housing were designed for that bulb. The bulb's filament is in the focal point of the reflector, so the single point of light is spread quite evenly inside the housing. All the light then hits the back side of the lens, making it appear that the whole thing is lit up.

An LED replacement "bulb" does not have its emitters in the same location as a stock bulb. And, while a filament basically radiates in all directions, an LED is somewhat focused. That means you need more emitters to point light in more directions, which further removes them from the focal point of the reflector. The few emitters that are pointing directly pointing at the back of the lens will appear as a very bright light, but they fail to fill the rest of the lens area, so all you see is just a bright spot.

If you really want effective LED turn signals, look for something that is DESIGNED as an LED light. Most of them will not be a reflector/lens setup, they are direct-view, where you see the full effect.

There are also a couple other factors to consider in your quest for LED signals.
1. You WILL have to change the flasher unit. The stock unit relys on the (relatively) heavy current drawn by the incandescent bulb. Reduce the current by using LEDs and it simply won't flash. There is no other flasher unit that you can get for any other vehicle that will work. ONLY a flasher for a GS will work.
2. Changing to another flasher, you will lose the auto-cancel feature of your signals.
- If you are not worried about that, you will only need to change your flasher, but be aware that not just any flasher will work. And you will have to do some re-wiring to be able to use the new flasher.
- If you do want to keep the auto-cancel, you will have to get REAL creative with your electronic fabrication skills. You will still need the new flasher, but you will also need to install a relay to trick the control unit into controlling the new flasher.

By the way, I have installed LED signals all around on my '80 850G(K). The front signals will likely destroy the budget for the rest of your bike build. First, I had to find clear lenses to replace the lenses in my AERO fairing. (About $10 each.) You will not have that option with your Windjammer. I then installed Dynamic Ringz from Custom Dynamics. ($90 for the pair.) I also have several lights that I tried and rejected for the rear signals. I don't remember what's in there right now, but they do seem to work. I seem to remember they might have been about $25 for the pair.

I accepted an offer from another member to test a prototype relay, which has been installed for several years and is still working quite well. Not sure what it would cost to duplicate, but in my case, some research and testing would be involved, too. Overall, the total for my turn signal lighting is around $150, not counting the rejected units. Just to show how much I value my lighting, consider that I spent (wasted?) another $120 or so on a license plate frame that includes tail, brake and turn signals, $60 for a brake light modulator and $170 for an LED headlight. And that's not even counting the LED strips that bring out the Goldwinger in me.

.

Hi Steve, thanks for your reply. Wow, lots to reply to, will do my best here before bedtime.

1. I am running a LOT of extra lights and other electrics (yes, I have upgraded the stator and gotten the better Reg/Rect in as well. I have a ton of extra red running and brake lights in rear of Vetter trunk including an LED strip along the sides of it. Vetter fairing also running full time lights as you probably know. I run a Nautilus air horn, heated grips, in real cold weather I wear my Aerostitch Kanatsu heated vest. Sometimes a GPS. I also have a SECOND set of rear facing turn signals, Just installed the AEROSTITCH front white mini LEDs and the rear Facing Red Flashin LEDs (which I intend to review soon in the Equipment Review Forum).

2. I have installed a LED H4 headllight bulb which has given me back maybe 20 watts that used to run the H4 Halogen bulb so that helps a bit.

3. I have used what I refer to as a "mechanical or electrical" turn signal relay for nearly 20 years and NEVER had any issue with flasher failure. I tossed out the infernal self cancelling device at that time, rarely hated such a useless device as much. Never on when I needed it, mind of its own. I am very disciplined in managing my turn signals in full manual mode.

4 I love the look of the OEM turn signals and would never consider changing them although I did add a set of wee tiny turn signals that look like those on many crotch rockets. I want to be sure the buttheads driving behind me have no doubt as to my intentions regarding direction changes. Might add a 3rd set at some point!

5. I am of low technical & mechanical skill as well as slowly fading mental abilities as I age. Tough on me. However I am persistent and that gets me through a lot.

6. I am on fixed income and one of the most invertebrate cheapskates you might ever meet. Difficult to imagine some of the expenses you tossed out. My bike is always pretty dirty looking, I'm not much better usually. We are both proud of our road grime.

7. That being said very few can come close to the love and respect I have for Roadkill, I might be found in my workshed, listening to opera or the Ramones with my cheek pressed lovingly up to the fairing imagining my next ride. I do not ride at night, I do not ride in the rain yet every once in awhile I am inadvertently caught in one of those situations. Roadkill always gets me home skillfully and safely. I talk to my old girl as I would a friend, out loud on the road or in the sanctuary of the shed.

When I see the tech skills, knowledge and awesome capabilities of so many members of GSR I am humbled and wonder if I actually belong here but I do need advice often even if I then go off and do things my own way. I hope my few rare contributions make a down payment at least on what I have gained in the forums. I have been a member pretty much since I took over this motorcycle.

I say all this because as I stumble into old age, I find I just have to do things my way but I do appreciate every bit of advice and each and every reply I have ever read here. I don't want a pickle, I just want to ride my motorcicle. Unfortunately there is about 600 days of rain forecast here in north central Maryland (the land of peasant living) and I don't ride in the rain.

Thanks again, I have decided to eschew the flipping LEDs. Perhaps I can install a mini windmill and get a bit more juice in the system.

DH

[Steve]

On the bright side (pardon the pun), ... your turn signals are on such a low percentage of the time, it won't really matter much for the overall load. Even if you did leave them ON all the time, they would only be on about half the time.

.

[suzukizone]

On the bright side (pardon the pun), ... your turn signals are on such a low percentage of the time, it won't really matter much for the overall load. Even if you did leave them ON all the time, they would only be on about half the time.

.

Of course. Other than the high current draw in wintertime, what with the vest and grips pulling nearly 70 watts, it is the total of all the smaller needs adding up that I have tried to LED my way to less usage. I suppose I could sit and do all the math as to exactly what all of that is but I think I am in a safe zone now. I monitor what is going on with a Kuryakan LED voltage meter as well as a small digital readout voltmeter. So far I haven't need the heated vest this season but I usually see 13.0 to 13.7 volts when rolling.

Thanks!

DH

[Gorminrider]

Your headlamp would be the easiest and most practical place to save power...incandescent is 60- 65 watts or so and generally uses half of the stator's output... While I wouldn't replace the incandescent (yet), still, for riding in Daylight hours, you can turn the headlamp off and use a pair of bright LED spotlamps ...I think these can be more effective than a single lamp at garnering the car-drivers' attention too.

Your laws may vary from those here but you must be careful reading them.... for instance,even without a close reading, I know that my led running lights cannot be used at night. Naturally- they are not focussed to the road-they are focussed to be seen....

So, going this route, you will need one or two switches inserted in the circuit.

[Steve]

Federal regulations in the US of A stated that any motorcycle built on or after 01 JAN 1979 must be equipped with a headlight that is ON when the bike is being ridden. That is why the GSes phased out the headlight switch on the US models, starting with the '79 models. Since other world markets still allowed headlights to be turned OFF, the switch stayed, but there was a mechanism installed to block it in the ON position for a couple of years until they came out with a new housing that did not contain the switch.

I have found that the stock incandescent light uses just under 1/3 of the output, which seems to agree with Suzuki's philosophy of turning off one leg of the three-phase stator when the headlight was turned off. I found it was LESS than 1/3 because the voltage at the battery was just a little bit higher when the headlight (and the third stator leg) was turned ON.

You should also be aware that all these silly voltage and current readings are assuming something near maximum output. If you are running at less than 2500-3000 RPM, your stator output is considerably below maximum. That is also the time when you are likely to have the additional loads of brake light(s) and turn signals. That load will come from the battery if the stator can not supply it. When engine speed gets back up, any excess the bike is not needing will go back into recharging the battery.

.

[posplayr]

Federal regulations in the US of A stated that any motorcycle built on or after 01 JAN 1979 must be equipped with a headlight that is ON when the bike is being ridden. That is why the GSes phased out the headlight switch on the US models, starting with the '79 models. Since other world markets still allowed headlights to be turned OFF, the switch stayed, but there was a mechanism installed to block it in the ON position for a couple of years until they came out with a new housing that did not contain the switch.

I have found that the stock incandescent light uses just under 1/3 of the output, which seems to agree with Suzuki's philosophy of turning off one leg of the three-phase stator when the headlight was turned off. I found it was LESS than 1/3 because the voltage at the battery was just a little bit higher when the headlight (and the third stator leg) was turned ON.

You should also be aware that all these silly voltage and current readings are assuming something near maximum output. If you are running at less than 2500-3000 RPM, your stator output is considerably below maximum. That is also the time when you are likely to have the additional loads of brake light(s) and turn signals. That load will come from the battery if the stator can not supply it. When engine speed gets back up, any excess the bike is not needing will go back into recharging the battery.

.

Unless you are idling, below 2500 is lugging it. IIRC the charging output limits to by the time you get to about 3500 RPM. Also recall that maximum output is due to the current rating of the magnetic strength of the rotor. Once you hit the maximum magnetic flux, the charging system can not produce any more power no matter how fast you spin the motor.

[suzukizone]

Unless you are idling, below 2500 is lugging it. IIRC the charging output limits to by the time you get to about 3500 RPM. Also recall that maximum output is due to the current rating of the magnetic strength of the rotor. Once you hit the maximum magnetic flux, the charging system can not produce any more power no matter how fast you spin the motor.

https://www.aerostich.com/led-battery-gauge.html

Hi posplayer. That sort of correlates on the readings I get from the LEDs on the Kuryakan unit (Link above for those not familiar with them) and the numbers I see on the numerical readout voltmeter. Don't know about the flux capacitor tho, couldn't afford one and afraid if it worked I'd end up back in high school and that was hell for me.

Be safe,

DH

[posplayr]

https://www.aerostich.com/led-battery-gauge.html

Hi posplayer. That sort of correlates on the readings I get from the LEDs on the Kuryakan unit (Link above for those not familiar with them) and the numbers I see on the numerical readout voltmeter. Don't know about the flux capacitor tho, couldn't afford one and afraid if it worked I'd end up back in high school and that was hell for me.

Be safe,

DH

My data is using a clamp on ammeter and measuring the AC amperage coming out of each leg of the AC stator legs. It was posted on keepandshare but they have deleted teh account for inactivity. Usually i can use the filename in the old link and search for the file on my machine but so fare coming up empty.