GS1000E Stator, regulator or rectifier fault find

[posplayr]

Many thanks Jim, got some 14 awg cable coming with some spades and rings, just wondering where the best place is for the SPG and best location for the wire that goes to the frame.

SPG to R/R(-) should not exceed 1 ft. Shorter is better. So an R/R(mounting bolt is fine). With that, the lengths of wire to battery, frame, and Harness do not matter much.

Not sure what type of crimper you have , so it is best to solder those crimps to keep out corrosion. Liquid flux really helps to get the solder to flow well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008QPT8R2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[GSthou]

Many thanks Jim, I am on the case

[posplayr]

I was checking the GS1000E wiring diagram and I see that it shows the thick red positive lead running from the + battery terminal to the starter solenoid, it also shows a second red wire from the + battery terminal going to the fuse box (15 amp fuse), my GS has the red fuse wire on the same terminal post as the thick red wire on the starter solenoid, is there any detriment in it being this way please.

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I'm not sure why I drew that schematic that way other than the possibility that the heavy cable has large connectors that are difficult to clean and there could be irreducible voltage drops on the (+) side. This would show up when you do stator Phase A tests looking at voltage drops at 5K RPM.

I you have a good soldering iron and can dip you cable end into vinegar or Naval Jelly you can try and cut down on as much corrosion in the crimps as possible. Then use some of that liquid solder and heat the crimps to get the solder to flow easily into the crimp. If this all works out you could then safely just run you jumper to the solenoid rather than all the way back to the battery.

Just to beat a dead hose some more, the reason for the liquid flux is so you don't need to put as much heat into the large wire/connector. The bigger the cable the longer it takes to heat up and you end up heating the whole length of wire and melting the insulation. This is especially true if there is even a small amount of corrosion.

If the solder flows more easily, then the end heats quickly and avoids an extended time with the soldering iron (and melting insulation).

Another tip while we are at it. You can used a pair of tweezers or needle nose pliers (with rubber band) on the wire insulation just next to the crimp when soldering. This tends to wick away heat and avoids getting the insulation too hot when soldering a crimp right next to insulation. Of course it requires a light touch as soft insulation will deform if pressed to tightly by the clips. This is the purpose made tool so you can get an idea for an improvised alternative.

It works well if you find you are melting your insulation too much while soldering. I would guess that 80-90% of the problem can be eliminated by using a drop of liquid flux, but sometimes you need the heatsink.

https://www.alliedelec.com/product/g...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Improvised solutions

https://www.instructables.com/id/Save-your-components-with-a-heat-sink/

[Gorminrider]

Here are the results of the quick test with lights off:
4) At 2500 RPM - 13.00 VDC
5) At 5000 RPM - 13.50 VDC

that's pretty low VDC with lights off. does it get worse with lights on? I would do a test on your stator's ac output first. The regulator is not regulating at those voltages so you don't yet know if it's working or not. As to difficulty of finding the popular SH775 there, where snowmobile parts are probably rare! you can get by with an original SH232 or sh238? or the like (but no ebay 'replacements"!) that shipped on Goldwings and other Hondas. They work fine for me.

[GSthou]

Here are the results of the quick test with lights off:
4) At 2500 RPM - 13.00 VDC
5) At 5000 RPM - 13.50 VDC

that's pretty low VDC with lights off. does it get worse with lights on? I would do a test on your stator's ac output first. The regulator is not regulating at those voltages so you don't yet know if it's working or not. As to difficulty of finding the popular SH775 there, where snowmobile parts are probably rare! you can get by with an original SH232 or sh238? or the like (but no ebay 'replacements"!) that shipped on Goldwings and other Hondas. They work fine for me.

Hopefully my new voltmeter should arrive in the next 4 or 5 days, then will be checking out each stator leg's output. Been looking on ebay and haven't seen any secondhand SH775's, the new ones in the US are expensive with delivery and customs tax for postage to the UK, in the order of $154.

[GSthou]

Here are the results of the quick test with lights off:
4) At 2500 RPM - 13.00 VDC
5) At 5000 RPM - 13.50 VDC

that's pretty low VDC with lights off. does it get worse with lights on? I would do a test on your stator's ac output first. The regulator is not regulating at those voltages so you don't yet know if it's working or not. As to difficulty of finding the popular SH775 there, where snowmobile parts are probably rare! you can get by with an original SH232 or sh238? or the like (but no ebay 'replacements"!) that shipped on Goldwings and other Hondas. They work fine for me.

Are the original SH232 or SH238 series R/R's please.

[Gorminrider]

Are the original SH232 or SH238 series R/R's please.

No. They're so-called "shunt" type. But more rugged than the Suzuki ones.

Suzuki charging in the 80's is a real big deal here, but I don't see it discussed so much in other makes of bikes I've owned....

[Grimly]

Suzuki charging in the 80's is a real big deal here, but I don't see it discussed so much in other makes of bikes I've owned....

The Triumphrat forum is fairly well peppered with charging woes, rectified by an SH-775. Similar with some Aprilias and Ducatis.

[posplayr]

The Triumphrat forum is fairly well peppered with charging woes, rectified by an SH-775. Similar with some Aprilias and Ducatis.

All these bikes shared teh same basic problem of having a shunting R/R which puts heavy demands on the bikes to pull heat out of the stators.

My guess is that you have to pull heat out of a 400 degF stator using soothing bath of 270 degF oil.

This is all very dependent on many factors including riding conditions, ambient temperature the physical construction of the stator and it mount and cover. In other words a balancing act to stay cool; it can go either way.

[Gorminrider]

yes, heat is certainly a bad thing... I've only got one 4cyl-the 650 and IT has a stator I rewound for it....there's very little shunting going on and what there is is through a heavier gauge of winding...

I'm not so sure about the oil bath thing though. Suzuki stators seem to get particularly dirty compared to my hondas...
maybe this is how I get away with it...put it on my GSX400E beater as a joke but it's grown on me, as a "look"
400EX-headOff-oct2018.jpg

[posplayr]

I’m not guessing. I have constructed an oil sprayer directed at the stator which lowered my oil temp substantially. Gs1166

[Rijko]

I’m not guessing. I have constructed an oil sprayer directed at the stator which lowered my oil temp substantially. Gs1166

Am i missing something here ?
The oil sprayer would pull heat out of the stator .. warming up the oil, right ?

[posplayr]

Am i missing something here ?
The oil sprayer would pull heat out of the stator .. warming up the oil, right ?

Obviously NOT!

At above 3.5K RPM the stator is a constant current device (i.e. I=KONSTANT).

Power dissipated is P=I^2R.

R increases with temp increasing power.

If you reduce temp you reduce R and thereby reduce Power dissipated by the stator.

[Rijko]

So i was missing something ! Knowledge

Thanks Jim, learning something new here again !

[GSthou]

I thought I would checkout the earth connections on the standard regulator and rectifier setup on the GS1000, whilst waiting for my voltmeter. My setup is the battery negative wire is bolted straight to the rear of the engine. The rectifier negative wire is 8 inches long with a ring which is connected straight to the battery negative post. The regulator has a short ground cable with a ring which is fixed to the regulator bottom mounting bolt. I have two black/white wires coming out of the harness (in a position just above the regulator) both with rings one was connected to the regulator top mounting bolt and the other to a bolt fixing on the battery box. Peculiarly the black and white ringed wire to the battery box was between the bolt and a washer but under the washer was a rubber mount. What are your thoughts guys. Can I move the black/white wire from the battery box and place it over the other ringed black/white wire from the harness to the top mounting bolt on the regulator.

.

Eventually the voltmeter has arrived and here are my readings with a new battery (lights off)

1) Ignition key off battery charge 12.89v

2) Ignition key on and engine crank - 12.3v

3) 1000rpm engine idle -12.67v

4) At 2500 RPM - 13.70 VDC

5) At 5000 RPM - 13.69 VDC (when revs dropped back down to 2500rpm saw voltage increase to nearly 13.8VDC)

6) Key off - 12.98v

Tested all three stator legs at 5000k rpm and got approx. 75 VAC