1983 gs750es Push start doesn't work, no spark on spark plugs but everything works

[chris]

Good to hear your getting somewhere. Too bad about the stator , I was hoping it was something simple. If you have not read the stator papers, I would suggest it. There is a lot of excellent info. Does the stator stink and insulation look burnt ?

[Eidollan]

Yeah I know, I was hoping it would be just simple but yeah it's always never simple lol... Thanks for the suggestion I'll check it out

[Redman]

ah.....
we seem to have three conversations going on here, and getting confused between them.
Talking about ignition system, talking about charging system, talking about using meter.

Stator problem will effect battery charging system, and not directly effect ignition not sparking.
(well unless battery voltage is way low).


FOr the no spark condition: first measure voltage at the org/wht wire at the coils. If that is low, well, then need to find why.
If it is low at coils because battery voltage is also low, well, then need to check the charging system.

For the no spark condition: can measure the ohms of the coil(s).
(I thought that is what you were doing in your photo.)

[Eidollan]

ah.....
we seem to have three conversations going on here, and getting confused between them.
Talking about ignition system, talking about charging system, talking about using meter.

Stator problem will effect battery charging system, and not directly effect ignition not sparking.
(well unless battery voltage is way low).


FOr the no spark condition: first measure voltage at the org/wht wire at the coils. If that is low, well, then need to find why.
If it is low at coils because battery voltage is also low, well, then need to check the charging system.

For the no spark condition: can measure the ohms of the coil(s).
(I thought that is what you were doing in your photo.)

Checked the voltage on the org/wht wires it didn't read nothing also the ohms shows nothing OL

[Eidollan]

I'll let the spark alone for now, i want to focus on the start botton, I want it to work first before moving to the others... So far here's what I have done, I traced the wires from the kill switch and start button, no melted wires or anything wires are fine, checked push button for continuity, if not pressed no continuity if press I has continuity same with the kill switch, traced the wires again going to the starter relay check the continuity all good but I still decided to replace the starter relay, still no response from the start button like there is no power, traced the wires again that goes to the igniter unit wires seems fine checked for continuity, none, but I'm not sure how to properly check that, decided to check the ignition switch, when I turn the key everything on the dash lights up everything works so I'm assuming there's no problem with it except for the start button, the safety switch on the clutch has been disabled so the bike would start even with out pulling the clutch, but I'm not sure about the side stand if the bike would start even if the side stand is down but I tried having it down and up still no response and the side stand indicator on the dash doesn't go away all I know it would go away when the engine turns over.

I'm checking the wiring diagram for the 1983 gs750e and I'm seeing a gr/ylw wire that has a starter disconnect switch that runs from the starter button to the starter relay but when I search for that on my bike I can't find it

[OldVet66]

Use one side of a set of jumper cables. Put one clip (of the same color) on the metal spark plug body and ground the other clip to a good solid place on the motor or transmission. The ground wire from the system to the transmission would be a good place. Connect the plug wire to the spark plug. If the starter will not work, hold the power wire to the coil, to a build up a magnetic field, and remove it while watching the spark plug. It should spark when the magnetic field collapses. That is an odd starter solenoid you showed in your picture. Suzuki used a solenoid with a metal body grounded to the isolated electrics mounting plate. Your solenoid is plastic, that is why it is hooked to the solenoid with odd wiring, so there is a return wire to pick up the solenoid. You might want to check continuity through that white plug for each wire with it disconnected from the circuit. There are two wire splices there, where the different colored wires are joined. If one is bad that would put your starter out of commission.

[Eidollan]

Use one side of a set of jumper cables. Put one clip (of the same color) on the metal spark plug body and ground the other clip to a good solid place on the motor or transmission. The ground wire from the system to the transmission would be a good place. Connect the plug wire to the spark plug. If the starter will not work, hold the power wire to the coil, to a build up a magnetic field, and remove it while watching the spark plug. It should spark when the magnetic field collapses. That is an odd starter solenoid you showed in your picture. Suzuki used a solenoid with a metal body grounded to the isolated electrics mounting plate. Your solenoid is plastic, that is why it is hooked to the solenoid with odd wiring, so there is a return wire to pick up the solenoid. You might want to check continuity through that white plug for each wire with it disconnected from the circuit. There are two wire splices there, where the different colored wires are joined. If one is bad that would put your starter out of commission.

Thanks man I'll try that... Yeah I was thinking about that starter relay, I looks different from the other bikes that I had and I know its not supposed to be like that

[OldVet66]

If it turns out to be ignighter or signal generator and if you have a mechanical advance or can put one on from an older model a Dyna-S ignition for about $160.00 would replace everything.

[Redman]

.......
.......but I'm not sure about the side stand if the bike would start even if the side stand is down but I tried having it down and up still no response and the side stand indicator on the dash doesn't go away all I know it would go away when the engine turns over.....

Sidestand swtich does not cut out the starter, nor does it cut out the ignition. All it does is light a light on the dash.
THe sidestand LIGHT also comes on with the low oil, kinda like a backup to the oil LIGHT.

.......
I'm checking the wiring diagram for the 1983 gs750e and I'm seeing a gr/ylw wire that has a starter disconnect switch that runs from the starter button to the starter relay but when I search for that on my bike I can't find it

What is called "disconnect" or "interlock" on the schamatic for the starter button- solenoid circuit is the clutch lever swicth (that you say has been bypased).

. . . . . traced the wires again going to the starter relay check the continuity all good but I still decided to replace the starter relay, still no response from the start button like there is no power, traced the wires again that goes to the igniter unit wires seems fine checked for continuity, none, but I'm not sure how to properly check that, decided to check the ignition switch, when I turn the key everything on the dash lights up everything works so I'm assuming there's no problem with it except for the start button, .......and up still no response .......

Good you have a voltmeter. That is a better tool for checking electrical problems than is your eyeballs and ears.

Meter on volt scale (VDC, 20 or 50 volts). Check for voltage at the solenoid, red lead to the thin wire to solenoid, balk lead to ground or batt neg. With Ignition swtich on, kill swtich in Run, press the start button. If no voltage when press the start button, well, need to check and see where do have it and where are loosing it. If is voltage but no solenoid click, then lets try it with the black lead on the solenoid mounting bolt..... report to us.

[salty_monk]

I had an 83 with similar wiring issues... Just be methodical & you'll get there The stator is the same as a lot of the other GS's & also some Kawasaki's and I think the SV & Vstrom so you should be able to find something. There is also a member here that rewinds them & does a great job.

Couple of well known issues on that bike are: RR (regulator/rectifier) very weak! You should replace it as it will fail if it hasn't already. Tach / Rev gauge - it's electronic & often goes bad becoming erratic. There is really a fix for that.

Some inspiration.... Mine looked like this by the time I was finished:

GS750ES-GSXR by salty_monk, on Flickr

[Eidollan]

Sidestand swtich does not cut out the starter, nor does it cut out the ignition. All it does is light a light on the dash.
THe sidestand LIGHT also comes on with the low oil, kinda like a backup to the oil LIGHT.


What is called "disconnect" or "interlock" on the schamatic for the starter button- solenoid circuit is the clutch lever swicth (that you say has been bypased).



Good you have a voltmeter. That is a better tool for checking electrical problems than is your eyeballs and ears.

Meter on volt scale (VDC, 20 or 50 volts). Check for voltage at the solenoid, red lead to the thin wire to solenoid, balk lead to ground or batt neg. With Ignition swtich on, kill swtich in Run, press the start button. If no voltage when press the start button, well, need to check and see where do have it and where are loosing it. If is voltage but no solenoid click, then lets try it with the black lead on the solenoid mounting bolt..... report to us.

Checked it had the positive on the solinoid and negative on the battery have the kill switch to run it shows 12v when I press the start button no click on the solinoid and no voltage change, same when I put it on the negative on the selinoid

[Eidollan]

I had an 83 with similar wiring issues... Just be methodical & you'll get there The stator is the same as a lot of the other GS's & also some Kawasaki's and I think the SV & Vstrom so you should be able to find something. There is also a member here that rewinds them & does a great job.

Couple of well known issues on that bike are: RR (regulator/rectifier) very weak! You should replace it as it will fail if it hasn't already. Tach / Rev gauge - it's electronic & often goes bad becoming erratic. There is really a fix for that.

Some inspiration.... Mine looked like this by the time I was finished:

GS750ES-GSXR by salty_monk, on Flickr

Yeah I notice the rev guage goes erratic when I was riding and I pass 6rpm it will just go everywhere and sometimes even loose its accuracy like running 30 mph on 3rd gear but the rev guage is at 7k rpm or 8k rpm it doesn't match the rev of the engine

[Redman]

Checked it had the positive on the solinoid and negative on the battery have the kill switch to run it shows 12v when I press the start button no click on the solinoid and no voltage change, same when I put it on the negative on the selinoid

To clarify: You have meter red on solenoid thin wire (which is from start button) (grn/yel I think) and meter black on solenoid mounting bolt (or solenoid body), reads no voltage until push the button, then when do push the button get 12vDC (about same as battery voltage) , but get no Solenoid click.
Well, if so, then, the bike starter button and the wiring and solenoid ground are all doing there job. But the solenoid itself is not.

But, Before condemning the solenoid, just to be sure we dont have a problem with the solenoid ground, try running your own ground wire from the solenoid mounting bolt to battery negative, even if only temporary for a test, and see if get solenoid click then.

[Eidollan]

Checked the voltage on the org/wht wires it didn't read nothing also the ohms shows nothing OL

I did it wrong the first try (I got to stop this late night work)... Rechecked it red meter wire to the positive thin wire that goes to the starter button, black meter wire to the selenoid mounting bolt when I pressed the stater button, nothing, 0V re tested it 3 times maybe I got a false reading but no it's still zero voltage before and when pressing the starter button

[Redman]

I did it wrong the first try (I got to stop this late night work)... Rechecked it red meter wire to the positive thin wire that goes to the starter button, black meter wire to the selenoid mounting bolt when I pressed the stater button, nothing, 0V re tested it 3 times maybe I got a false reading but no it's still zero voltage before and when pressing the starter button

Okay, good description.

You might also try what you did with black on the mounting bolt, again, but make sure you scratch the black lead into the bolt a little bit.

What you did proves that SOMETHING is wrong - electrically (as opposed to a problem with solenoid itself).
To further narrow it down, Lets try what you did again, but this time, have the black meter lead on the battery negative (instead of solenoid mounting bolt). If do get 12vdc that way, this will make us suspect a problem with the solenoid grounding.

Report back to us.