No Spark either side till i release the starter button

[TheAlt]

In looking over other bikes and quads that had this issue it seems like it could be just about anything but the low-voltage condition certainly is not helping. So I’ll have to clean everything up. For my Honda I have three spare CDI’s for the Suzuki I have no spare CDI’s

alt

[pdqford]

So once I get the switch rebuilt, what is the issue with the no spark until the starter button is actually released? Is that just a recontact being made?alt

I suspect the starter button might some how be feeding voltage to the coils and when you release the starter button the primary coil circuit collapses, causing the secondary to throw a spark.

Have you ever seen this machine run?

[Grimly]

It's a fairly common fault on various vehicles for many decades back, that a starter pulls down the system voltage so far that the coils can't spark. So when you release the starter button, the engine is still spinning and the coils are momentarily fed with sufficient voltage to generate a spark. This applies to points and electronic systems alike.
The fault is commonly a dying battery or dirty connections, but might be caused by a starter drawing too much current.

[TheAlt]

I suspect the starter button might some how be feeding voltage to the coils and when you release the starter button the primary coil circuit collapses, causing the secondary to throw a spark.

Have you ever seen this machine run?

I have not seen it run yet. The bike has set since 2016 with the previous owner in the shed. So I picked it up and I’m working on it. I did do the stater check in the stander seems like it tastes OK but since it sat in the shed for a long time I suspect I’ll just need to clean all the electronic connections.

[phydeauxmutt]

... for the Suzuki I have no spare CDI’s.

That is a very easy situation to acheive, as Suzuki never included a CDI on any of their bikes.

[TheAlt]

Mission successful. I had to re-create the metal contact and I found a good spring out of a momentary switch that I pulled apart

[TheAlt]

Slowly I'm back to work on this project.
Got the switch back together.
Have not cleaned contacts other that a few wires in the headlamp assembly and the entire switch assembly since I took it apart.
Still no spark on either cylinder. None seen this time when releasing the button and having 12vdc direct to the coil leads.
Cranks fine.

Didn't expect much result as I've not put much into it , but did pull this cover and I don't find much on this Japan Ignition system.
What am I looking at here (other than the right side of my bike)
suzukiignition.jpg

Also I'm noticing that the sidestand light is still on with the sidestand up and the key in the on position.
Manual states pause a C and oil and sidestand lights are on, but nothing about ON position.
I disconnected the leads to the sidestand, and the light is still on as well. May be normal for a 82.

alt

[Redman]

Slowly I'm back to work on this project.
Got the switch back together.
Have not cleaned contacts other that a few wires in the headlamp assembly and the entire switch assembly since I took it apart.
Still no spark on either cylinder. None seen this time when releasing the button and having 12vdc direct to
.
…

Also I'm noticing that the sidestand light is still on with the sidestand up and the key in the on position.
Manual states pause a C and oil and sidestand lights are on, but nothing about ON position.
I disconnected the leads to the sidestand, and the light is still on as well. May be normal for a 82.

alt

for no ignition I would say check voltage at
coils, and again while cranking starter.
Such as what you stated in original post. With that much voltage
drop, the voltage at coils is to low when cranking for
ignition to operate.
Do that test again now that have done the other work.



for the sidestand light:
the oil pressure switch makes the oil light and sidestand light come on. To prove that to yourself, either start bike, or crank till it builds pressure, or temperary pull connector off the oil pressure sensor .

[Redman]

You are looking at the ignition pickup for the electrical mic ignition, what used to be contact points (prior to 1980).

[bonanzadave]

starter pulls down the system voltage so far that the coils can't spark.

and the headlight too. Happened to my bike. I did the relay mod to the coils and it now hits instantly.

[TheAlt]

Loads of cleaning.. little or no change
Spent the last couple of days disconnecting pretty much everything I could and giving it a cleaning.
95% of the bike has little or no corrosion, but
found the rear left tail signal quite rusted.
Found the light/horn switches with a fair amount of copper corrosion.
Though I could not completely disassemble this due to the headlight switch not wanting to come off, I did spray about 1 can of CRC electronic cleaner and air through it. Not ruling it out, but it should be clean.

Some terminals just got a good shot of cleaner in them , but if I could remove the wire it was scotchbrited.
Pulled all cluster lights and headlight. Cleaned the connections, and left the bulbs out.

Still good drop.
Battery New 13.vdc
Coils on, no crank 10.4 vdc
Crank another 2vdc drop.

Directly pigtailing the coils to the starter solenoid side. about a 1.25 VDC drop.

Will do some more testing tomorrow try to figure out what wire may be the circuit in the drop, but if there's a place I'm missing, it must be in the lower hemisphere.
Will look into the mod perhaps as well, but would be bandaid likely since I don't know the source for sure. This mod I'm assuming. https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/bikec...relay_mod.html

Alt

[Redman]

, , , , ,
Still good drop.
Battery New 13.vdc
Coils on, no crank 10.4 vdc
Crank another 2vdc drop..
..
..
Alt

All your connection cleaning is a good thing to do.

Have you determined if you voltage drop is mostly in the wiring from battery to fuse to ignition swith to fuse to coils

..... or is it the battery it self that is drooping? THe voltage droop when turn on the key makes me suspect so. Check battery voltage when turn on key, and again when cranking.

In your conection cleaning, there is a major suspect conection that is not so accessable, and that is in the wiring from the main fuse to the the ignition swtich where the output of the R/R ties in somewhere burried in the wiring harness, yah, somehere in the harness there the red wire from the R/R is tied into the other red wire. . . . . that seems to be where I was loosing a good amount of voltage. Never have tore apart the harness to find specifically where that is.

[TheAlt]

Since the positive side of the battery is hard to get to when the battery is installed, my tests have been from the battery / solenoid side.

Negative probe on the negative battery terminal.
Positive on the battery / solenoid side.
Key OFF.
12.96 volts.

Key ON. Same.
Probe put on coil + 10.4x VDC.
Cranking another 1.25is drops Low 9.xx vdc.

A pigtail wire run direct from battery/solenoid side 12.7x vdc .
Cranking about 1.2x VDC drop so in the mid 11.x vdc.

Now used to be when I released the starter button, I'd get a faint spark Now... nuttin. So this may be a new issue as an aside as I'd expect some spark with 12vdc at the coils.
I've only checked the right-side as it's 70 degrees and the Honda and I had to take our first ride on the street.

Only have 1 fuse as in in-line glass fuse. From battery to the wireloom somewhere in the middle, then I suspect it runs to the headlamp, but will need to track the wire diagram. May run a bypass for it to see if things change. If that's the issue, will likely just leave the bypass and snip the old one out.

Next items
Stator test again, Sanity check as it was fine a month ago, but will remove the cover and clean connections which I've not done.
Ignitor test which I've not done.
Coil test again as a Sanity check.

Alt

[TheAlt]

..... or is it the battery it self that is drooping? THe voltage droop when turn on the key makes me suspect so. Check battery voltage when turn on key, and again when cranking.

Tested this this am keeping the lead on the + solenoid / battery side when cranking,
Battery with OFF position 12.25 this am (cold am)
Battery in ON position 11.94
Voltage at cranking 10.4x.

Thanks
Alt

[salty_monk]

All of those figures are a bit low to be honest.... How new is your battery? We like the Motobatt ones on here.

Seems like a "coil relay mod" might also be in order as well as cleaning up all the connectors and switches. Good luck!