Wheel bearings install and symptoms and... what are head bearings?

[Guest]

Hey everyone. GS650GL I acquired with "7,000" miles on it. The gauges aren't original, and the speedo cable had been busted a long time.

When I'm stopping hard, or on a downhill, the bike stutters/bucks on the front wheel - only below 15mph or so, and just before I stop. It's not doing it if I'm moving.

I'm betting the front wheel bearings are toast. I bought a new set. Looks like I may need a press to get them in and I don't want to fabricate a bolt setup. Tried that with bushings on my Volvo (supposed to be "easy) and all I ended up doing was wasting 2 hours and bending the bejeezus out of a bunch of washers.

Can I install the bearings with a drift on the outer bearing race, or is that going to cause problems? Also, I don't HAVE a drift, nor do I see a point to buying a lump of softer-than-steel metal for $40. I plan to go pick up some copper pipe at home depot and use that. I know copper's softer than the steel/cast mag-alloy.


So, also when I'm at speeds, the bike seems to sort of ...drift into turns. It feels like I have to lean the bike, then it delays at dedicating to the turn. Sort of like it's lazy to follow my motions. Once it gets into a turn, it feels fine, it's just like driving a car with bad tie rods.
I think that could be the front wheel bearings too. Any opinions that are more developed than mine? (about this topic )


So, while I'm at it... what are head bearings? Since that's a dumb question, I googled a little bit and it looks like they're what's between the front forks and the frame - essentially what lets you move the forks when you're moving.
Do bad head bearings cause these problems? Is it a major pain to do on these GS models?

I'm debating keeping or getting rid of the bike. If I find a decent job 10-11 an hour full time, I'll keep it. Otherwise it needs more maintenance than I'm going to be able to put into it within a reasonable time frame, and I have a car that needs a new engine. Better to have one working car and no bike than two half working vehicles. The car's turbocharged and been mostly rebuilt, so it's a LOT of fun to drive And a lot more comfortable/convenient for traveling.

[Wallowgreen]

The front end problems you describe could be due to any one (or more) of the causes you mention including brakes, only way to find out is strip it down and investigate. With the wheel out, pull on the fork legs and watch for play in the stem. If it's torqued up correctly and there's play the bearings are suspect. Never had to change any of these bearings personally so I can't comment on how difficult a job it is.

As for the wheel bearings, I just fixed a "slight wobble" at about 30mph in the front end of my 850, the fork seals needed changing and I got progressive springs to put in at the same time. When I stripped it all down, one of the wheel bearings was shot. I changed them myself using the info available from BassCliff's site written up by Suzuki_Don found here:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff1/images/front_wheel_bearing_removal.pdf

The dynabolt is a good idea but as he notes in the text, you have to get the right size. Local hardware stores didn't have anything that fitted exactly so they kept pushing out when hit hard. However, eventually the bearing moved sufficiently to allow the internal spacer to be pushed far enough to one side that I could get the long bolt I was using to catch on the inner race. The bearing came out pretty easy then.

As for pressing the new ones in, well that was about the easiest part. I put them in the freezer the day before and left them overnight. Got them out right when I was ready to press them in. Did one at a time with one thick galvanised washer the other side of the wheel and a socket turned around the wrong way that I used as a drift on the outer race. Wound up the nut on the threaded bar like in the description and they went in so easy it was laughable.

The threaded bar and nuts cost me about $3

[Macmatic]

I just installed new wheel bearing front and rear on my GS750 so here are a few thoughts for you.

Buy the All Balls kits from your vendor of choice, I think I paid under $30 for both kits shipped and I'll be buying them next time I do bearings on a bike.

Buy the "special tool" or do the bolt and washer method. Trust me, I've done plenty of bearings and &%#@ bushings on 240's and 7 series, these wheel bearings are a kinder, gentler operation. Go to an Ace hardware or other hardware store, skip Home Despot and the like. Get a long 9/16 bolt, a nut and a variety of washers. (edit: make sure 9/16 will work but you probably have the same size axle as I do) I have tons around the house so I just had to paw through a few cans but you'll need to find:

1 with the same OD as each bearing or just under, keep it on the outer race.
1 bigger than the opening in the rim.
X several from a normal 9/16 flat washer stepping up in size towards the largest one.

You want to have your 9/16 washer at the nut end of the bolt, then a little bigger one, then the big one that covers the opening in the wheel. On the thread end you'll have the one the size of the bearing, a little smaller one and then the 9/16. This spreads the load and keeps from bending washers, this is also a much easier task with less load and the washers are pretty much supported by the bearing.

Check out a handful of each size, you'll find some that are thicker than others in most bins. Buy some extra, cheap and you might find (as I did) that you need to back the nut off and add a few washers to seat the bearing when you run out of thread.

Don't use a drift and don't waste your money on pipe. Chances are with a drift you'll slip at least once and hit the bearing someplace you don't want to and pipe is just going to crush, slip and probably gouge up your seals. Unless you mean copper pipe the OD of the bearing, that could work I guess but the bolt method really is simple and it works.

I cleaned out the bores and rubbed a LITTLE bearing grease into the sides and a light skim on the outside of the bearings. I also left the bearings in the freezer over night to shrink them. Those suckers went in so fast I didn't even realize I'd left out the rear bearing spacer..

/\/\ac
(Former owner of something like 20 assorted Volvo's. 1800 to 850T)

[WilliamGLX81]

Hey guys, thanks for the encouragement. I got the wheel off, and got the dynabolt in place....
And the sleeve wasn;t big enough, though it made darn good contact, it didn't deform the same way.

I can rent (for free) a bearing installer from kragen. I went through home depot and did find a piece of copper pipe (1.5 to 1.25 fitting) that was the exact same 39-40mm OD.
I did not find a set of washers that would properly fit the outside race, and didn't want to play around with the copper pipe, so I called Kragen. That's all fine and dandy, but I can't get the bearings out!

I couldn't fit the bolt into the hole with a second sleeve on the outside of it, is there a bearing puller I can get ahold of? Hopefully I can rent one from kragen the same way.

If not that.... any ideas? The dynabolts were SAE, not metric.

BTW why the dislike of home depot? Other than that they're a huge retailer and those generally suck.

[Wallowgreen]

That's exactly the same situation I had. The dynabolt did not fit well enough inside the inner race to take much of a whack. In the end, I bent the sleeve from one so that I could get some but not all of it in with the other bolt if that makes sense? I got better purchase then but still the bolt pushed out when hit a few times.

I'll repeat what I was told at about this time "you give up too easily". Persevere, keep tightening the dynabolt in the bearing as best you can and make sure you whack the bolt inside the sleeve from the other side, not the sleeve. Eventually the bearing will move enough to jiggle the internal spacer to the side enough to get purchase directly on the inner race from the other side. Then you're home free, just start whacking on that directly from the other side whilst working around so the bearing doesn't get on the skew whiff. It will come out easy in the end once you can get at it. A little heat on the hub will help as well, I didn't use flame as I didn't take the discs off and didn't want to put those at risk so I used my hot air heat gun.

As for putting them back in. I still recommend you use the threaded bar approach over using copper pipe. Seems to me copper pipe has a thin wall and they will take some whacking. I couldn't find washers to fit either but I did find a socket just the right size. I used big square galvanised washers about 1/4" thick on the other side of the wheel that sat on the hub (from the construction area at Home Depot not the hardware section) and the socket on the bearing outer race with another construction type washer on the outside of it. Then you don't have to find washers exactly the right size. Using the threaded bar it was easy and slow so I could make sure they went in square. I think it will be hard to keep the bearing, copper pipe and wheel in line enough to whack them in. Even then I bet the pipe will deform being so soft.

As for the bearing puller, that should work too but I've personally never used one. I think you'd need a blind bearing puller though because of the internal spacer, you don't want to damage the inside surface of that.

Keep at it, you'll get it.

[Macmatic]

BTW why the dislike of home depot? Other than that they're a huge retailer and those generally suck.

Home Despot:

In relation to this topic, just because they have a limited selection of hardware. They sell to the lowest common denominator so you won't find much in the way of uncommon hardware there. An independant hardware store is likely to have a MUCH wider range of parts and it's good to support a local business when you can. ACE, True Value etc count for independant in this case, many of them are multi-generation family businesses.

Outside of this topic: I worked closely with HD as part of an on site service pilot program for their rental centers on the ATL area and was not impressed.

Harbor Freight sells a blind bearing puller kit that worked great for me. If you can't get the bearing on one side out try the other. I about beat my puller to death on one side and gave up to try the other...which came out in about six whacks. Then I used a long punch to drive out the first side. I'd never heard of the Dynabolt idea before reading this thread, it probably would have worked on the side I got out but not on so the other so switch it up if you aren't getting anyplace.

/\/\ac

[WilliamGLX81]

Ah, haha, ok. I was just hoping there was a shortcut somewhere... I think I'm going to try to get a punch/chisel onto a spot where I can take a whack at the inner race.

Mac - Yeah, I've definitely noticed that home depot is pretty much selling to the bulk buyers. Not much as far as specialty parts.

I bet using a real hammer, instead of an old crescent wrench will work too... heh :shrug:
I'm feeling quite a bit better today, sinus infection and allergies be damned!
Back to it with the last 30 mintues of semi-daylight.

[WilliamGLX81]

Baha! Done!

So, I opened up the sleeve from the first bolt, put on the second. Had to hammer it IN, then tightened it down and with only a few whacks - poof. Easy as pie.

Anyway, I ended up just using one of the "dyna" bolts as a drift and tapping them into place. I got them fully seated, no need for anything fancy, but a little tiny layer of wheel bearing grease in the cup helped.

If I trust anyone, I trust myself with the drift. No issues, and not a blow landed anywhere but on (and only on) the outside edge of the outside race.

I hammered them home until it went from making a hollow-ish noise to a metal-on-metal noise, which sounded rather like a bell. A framing hammer and a gentle steady hand took care of things.

I think the moral is: Don't be gentle with the old bearings, you're going to throw them away anyway

[Wallowgreen]

Glad you got it done in the end mate.