Engine oil. Why the wildly opposing opinions?

[bonanzadave]

shmoil.

Oy vey ! How about Gefilte fish oil ?

[Nessism]

The good news is in Oz we have access to a fine product that is JASO MA certified and has one of the highest zinc % levels of any engine oil at 1480ppm compared to some diesel engine oils with a zinc level of 800- 900ppm, is cheap to buy and made here locally. Something to consider with diesel engine oil is many of them use a high level of detergent in the oil and this is not want you want in a air cooled engine when you are trying to gain the benefit of zinc.

Here in the US, where we have strict emissions legislation, most diesel oils have in the 1200 ppm range. I've read a number of oil analysis reports at the Bob is the Oil Guy Forum and have never seen any in the 800 - 900 range. http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...oard=25&page=1

As for MA certification, it doesn't hurt of course, but very few diesel oil manufacturers want the expense of gaining this certification since the volume market for this oil is in trucks, not motorcycles. Diesel oil rarely has Energy Conserving additives which cause clutches to slip, so forgoing this certification is low risk for motorcyclists using this oil.

[koolaid_kid]

I personally don't pay a great deal of attention to certs because it does cost money to go through the process. Look at the apps you install for Windblows. Notice how many have a pop-up that says "This is not MS certified, do you really want to install". Money is the issue, even though the apps are fine. They same is true for other industries, including oil.

[Shin-Ken 1074]

As one of the other Oil Suppliers used to say "oils ain't oils" and in this case Shell oil in the US is not the same as here in Australia. The following text is a reply from Shell Australia TAC explaining why Shell diesel oil is not recommended for use in bikes in Australia.



Rotella T is a Canadian product and will not be coming to Australia. The Australia version is Rimula X 15w-40. Rimula Ultra is a better quality oil because it is synthetic. But it's API performance grade is not as high. It all depends on what the vehicle's API spec has too meet.

For diesel engine performance Rimula X 15w-40 would be equivalent to Rotella T. However Rotella T in a universal oil, suitable for both spark and compression ignition engines, which Rimula X 15w-40 is not.

None of Shell Australia's high performance diesel oils (Rimula X 15w-40, Rimula Super, Rimula Ultra) are tested for spark ignition performance. As such we would not recommend using them in a motorcycle, regardless of whether they contain friction modifiers.

I would like to assure you that I have examined the websites that you have forwarded to us. However, little of what is said on these websites applies to Shell products available in Australia. Shell USA has a completely different range of diesel engine oils to those available in Australia.

While we have a Rotella range of oils (Rotella DD+ 40 and Rotella DD+ 50) in Australia, they are suitable for use only in Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engines, and as such cannot be compared to the American Rotella T. Rotella T is a universal (as opposed to diesel specific) engine oil, making it suitable for all types of 4 stroke engine (heavy duty diesel and both motorcycle and passenger car petrol engines.

I would like to reiterate that the high end diesel oils sold by Shell in Australia are all designed solely for diesel engine use and are not designed for, nor tested to meet any kind of petrol engine specification.

To answer your questions directly:

Rimula Premium (which is not sold in Australia) is not the same as Rimula Ultra. Rimula Premium is designed to North American diesel engine oil specifications (set out by Caterpillar, Cummins, Mack etc) , whilst Rimula Ultra (as sold in Australia) is designed to meet European specificiations (set out by Scania, Volvo, Iveco etc). Neither is better than the other, because they are design for different purposes. In Australia, Shell Rimula oils are used in heavy duty, 4 strokes diesel engine, while Shell Rotella oil are used in 2 stroke diesel engines. Therefore they are not comparable. Rotella T is not a diesel engine oil, it is a universal engine oil and therefore will be suited to all types of engines.

Shell Australia's high end diesel oils are diesel specific, and we strongly recommend that they are used for this purpose only. You may wish to re-read the note at the bottom of the following link:

http://www.rotella.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=81

Please be aware that none of Shell Australia's diesel engine oil meet the API SL specification and as such may not be up to the challenge.



Regards,

Shell TAC

[rapidray]

Sorry to be so blunt but you need to find a new mechanic as yours isn't too bright. Ray.

[TheCafeKid]

Shin that is a very interesting read. I honestly never thought about there being that big of a difference in what's available here vs elsewhere for oil considering the US's rather stringent emissions standards in most cases.

Learn something every day.... Thanks for posting that!

[Shin-Ken 1074]

Thanks TCK, glad it was of interest. We're all here to help keep our GS's going and this may help some understand the problems when assuming a product is the same everywhere when at times they are not, cheers.

[Mysuzyq]

I wonder if the preoccupation with zinc levels isn't a little bit overblown, given that zinc (more appropriately, ZDDP) seems intended primarily as the last line of defense, before metal to metal contact ensues (think oil pump failure etc.). Lower levels in modern oil formulas caused some concern to owners of older classic cars with push-rod/tappet engines, where boundary lubrication is crucial to extending the life of those components. Now, phosphorous is more of an active anti-wear additive, and higher levels would have obvious benefits, but there doesn't seem to be much debate, or oil comparisons made, based solely on levels of phosphorous in different brands.
I write this mainly to clarify & possibly learn something...not simply to argue. So input from those more learned, would be welcome.

[JEEPRUSTY]

That glazing the bore thing is nuts.
I recall a cranky old guy in Sarasota FLA back in 83.

He asked us to pick up some oil for him and he specifically said it was to be Havoline of nothing.

His reason was that he had always used it in his car.
This stellar chemist\engineer\crazy old man then proceeded to tell us that if you change a brand of oil then the original oil has to burn off before the new oil can take its place.
This leads to horrible engine wear due to the time in between when there is no lubrication at all.

It was mind-numbing to look this man in the face, listen to his lunacy, and not punch him and run away.

go to bobistheoil guy.

I always use synthetic in my vehicles mostly to allow longer change intervals and to promote cold weather starting.

I no longer use synthetic in bikes. Diesel oil is mighty good stuff for bikes and cheap and easily obtained.

[TheCafeKid]

Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable about oil can answer this as to whether it's myth or true, or at least plausible. (that's right you get to be Jamie or Adam)

I read, and it may have been here, that changing your oil TOO OFTEN can cause premature wear. I seem to remember the theory being something to the effect that oil or contents of oil, bond with the parts they are to protect, and that changing the oil to frequently prevents this bond from happening.
Obviously changing it too often would be a monumental waste of money, but is this pure hokum or is there at least an element of truth to this?

[JEEPRUSTY]

How would draining the oil in any way lead to a loss of the minimal oil that is retained in cylinder walls?

I know Iron is semi porous and holds oil.
Regardless if I empty my cast iron skillet to put in fresh oil to make home fries the pain does not cease to be oily.

But then that is too logical............
Its that crazy old guy in Sarasota again.
Sent us for oil and to get a sandwich at Starvin Marvin's??

[tkent02]

Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable about oil can answer this as to whether it's myth or true, or at least plausible. (that's right you get to be Jamie or Adam)

I read, and it may have been here, that changing your oil TOO OFTEN can cause premature wear. I seem to remember the theory being something to the effect that oil or contents of oil, bond with the parts they are to protect, and that changing the oil to frequently prevents this bond from happening.
Obviously changing it too often would be a monumental waste of money, but is this pure hokum or is there at least an element of truth to this?

I'm going to guess it's pure BS, but even if it were true it would not effect me or my bikes. What we should have is a "Silly Oil Myth" thread, with these and all of the others on it.

Edit, the Silly Oil Myth thread has been started.

[1_v8_merc]

Just go to your local truck stop.

I've run extremely crappy diesel in my GS, like maybe $1.50/qt or less.

But I like wal-mart's brand of Diesel, called Farm&Fleet 15w40.
Sometimes I will switch to Rotella brand.

I switch Oil Brands all the time.....she still runs strong.

[JimmyR]

Ok cool - I feel wiser now! Thanks for all the input and I think you are right about my mechanic. He's a lovely bloke but I do get sceptical when people get so preachy about things when other guys don't. I like to think that I have a pretty good BS detector and that's why I posted the question in the first place. You fellas have confirmed what my inner BSD detected.

[themess]

Message #3 in this thread tells most of what a person in North America needs to know about oils for GSes.

Q Why are there so many arguments about oil?
A Because it's about chemistry and engineering and things that can't be seen, so it's hard to recongnize BS.

FWIW, after spending an hour or two on bobistheoilguy, I won't be going back.