I lost two quarts of oil in 30 seconds

[jfman]

Aaaand! it is the clutch rod seal that has popped right out... (Nessism was spot on)

I popped it back in with a 19mm socket (my parts havent come in yet) put two quarts back in. Cranked the bike up and the seal popped righ back out again.

So I guess my question is: Is it normal that to have a lot of oil pressure behind the clutch rod seal?


hopefully with a new seal in place it wont be an issue.

[chuck hahn]

Yes its normal...the rod goes thru to the clutch basket and is subject to any crankcase pressure that builds up. The thing is that rubber looses its valcanization properties over time and shrinks and it doesnt take much pressure to push it out. So therefore it may just be that the runner is shrunk to the point its not gonna stay in..least now you know.

[chuck hahn]

Ask around, but when the new one comes in I think that a good clean seat surface and some gasket glue wouldnt hurt anything.

[pete]

I'm not sure how the 400's work, but somewhere in the 450 revisions from 80 - 82 they changed the seal from a flange type to a non-flange type and added an external retainer instead.

I suspect they had a lot of issues like you're experiencing and the non-flange type seal with the retainer must have resolved a lot of them.

[BentRod]

Do yourself a favor and replace every phillips head with allen head SS fasteners. I've always drilled out those crappy stripped screw heads. Just use a bit large enough that it covers the head and drill it till it's gone and stop. Once the case is off, take a vise grip and unscrew it the rest of the way out.

I have seen this down south, and I envy you folks that can get away with this, but in most of Canada, you really can't do this. A bit of salt and water from the road, and the aluminum engine cases and stainless bolts from a battery that will corrode the aluminum away. The bolts will look great in 3 years, but the threads in the case will be a mess.

[jfman]

The clutch pushrod seal has a retainer plate that covers the bottom half of the seal.

The seal tilted out from the top in my case.

[pete]

The clutch pushrod seal has a retainer plate that covers the bottom half of the seal.

The seal tilted out from the top in my case.

Ok cool, hopefully a new seal takes care of it!

[jfman]

Things are not going well.

I removed it all to put the new seal in.

Before I put the new seal in I cleaned the bore and I dabbed the bore a little with rtv.

After I drove the seal in, I ran a bead of rtv over the seal. Overkill I know but figure it could not hurt. The fit of the new seal was tight as it should be. I waited 2 hours for the rtv to cure.

Fired the bike up and the seal came right back out with a lot of oil pressue making a mess once again.

Something isnt right here. I think there is something wrong with the crankcase pressure. Seems to me that amount of oil pressure is not normal. It took some good taps with a right sized socket to drive that seal in and it popped out right away.


two seals purchased alternate and old style. I went witht he one on the right because that's what was on the bike.






New seal:







Pressure so great that it bent the seal. I pulled the new seal back out and it is distorted from the pressure.

[JEEPRUSTY]

Show us a picture please. Is the retainer in place?
Did you replace both seals int he fiche?

[jfman]

Show us a picture please. Is the retainer in place?
Did you replace both seals int he fiche?

I was in the process of uploading the pictures when you posted.

I pulled the new seal out and it's bent from the oil pressure.

[JEEPRUSTY]

There is an oil chart in the manuals showing the direction and location of oil flow.

You should reference that.

The retainer is odd looking mine covers the complete circumference of the push rod seal.

I cannot seem to locate you bike on the alpha sports fiche......

[jfman]

Quote stolen from another thread

I think the PO replaced the old style seal that was installed from the inside out with the new style but he did not use the correct retainer plate. The old style seal cannot be used because it's installed from the inside out during the engine assembly. Also I am still thinking that there is too much pressure in the motor... I may be wrong on this but even with the incorrect plate, why would the seal the PO put in stay in so long before popping out and my new seal would pop right out.

Before calling it quits, I'm going to buy yet another new seal. Steal the correct plate from my 1986 bike and see what I what happens.

If it still pops out.. then it may be time for on of my parts bikes to lose a motor.

OK, here is how to tell how hard of a time you are going to have doing this job.
Examine this picture and figure out which bracket you have.

The seal next to it is how it will look after you take it out.
If you have the top type of holder, I would not do this job unless you really have a bad leak there.
Here's how it looks now. I'm not going to bend the tabs on the plate until I test it and make sure it isn't leaking.

There is an oil chart in the manuals showing the direction and location of oil flow.

You should reference that.

The retainer is odd looking mine covers the complete circumference of the push rod seal.

I cannot seem to locate you bike on the alpha sports fiche......

[mrbill5491]

I have seen this down south, and I envy you folks that can get away with this, but in most of Canada, you really can't do this. A bit of salt and water from the road, and the aluminum engine cases and stainless bolts from a battery that will corrode the aluminum away. The bolts will look great in 3 years, but the threads in the case will be a mess.

Aaah forgot about that, salt not good...they use salt here WHEN it might snow lol. Then again it is gone in a day or so. So we don't get those salty conditions. Though I do remember when I was in NC for a couple months. Was just off the ocean and the salt build up was scary, I spray washed my bike off before I came back to NM. Amazing how much corrosion hit the bike in that short of time.

[pete]

Ok, I see your problem straight away!

You're using the non-flange seal without the proper retainer, so yes it will blow out every time as there's nothing to hold it in place against the pressure.



The bottom retainer is what you need with the non-flange type seal.

If you don't put that in, you will need a flange type seal, and I'm unsure if you can replace that without splitting the cases... I only have experience with the non-flange type with the retainer...

[jfman]

New seal, correct plate stolen from parts bike and it's back to business. No leaks that I couls see.

I did not get the chain back on because it got dark but hopefully tomorrow I'll wrap this up and go for a ride.