chain keeps loosening

[megatwin]

I'm guessing you have already checked the sprocket drive cushions?

[bwanna]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I just replaced the tire a few weeks ago and inspected everything internal as part of the process. Anyway, most of that is new within the recent year.

Here's a video of me tensioning the chain. It appears that NOT doing this under load could be the culprit. I was tensioning it on the center stand and clearly once placed under load the chain was too tight. What likely has been happening is it stretched a bit and found it's own appropriate slack. While I don't think 2.5" is right for a road setting (vs a motoX), I realize that my technique had been making the chain too tight.

I've only put about 100 miles on since doing this, but expect to do about 500 more during the next few days. Will check it again and let you all know.

http://www.4shared.com/video/6c1pIj6tba/chain_tensioning_gs450.html

Cheers

[platinum2]

are you sure the chain isnt stretching , knock off chains will stretch a lot before settling in, and depending on the torq and how hard you ride, just something to think about

[bwanna]

I'm guessing you have already checked the sprocket drive cushions?

I just checked them when I put the new tire on. Curious, how would that affect the chain tension?

[Crankthat]

I just checked them when I put the new tire on. Curious, how would that affect the chain tension?

The cushions do exactly as the name implies.
When they are still soft and pliable they cushion what would otherwise be a sharp jar every time you add or lower your throttle while changing gears.
They take stress away from the chain at those moments by cushioning the transition.

[bwanna]

The cushions do exactly as the name implies.
When they are still soft and pliable they cushion what would otherwise be a sharp jar every time you add or lower your throttle while changing gears.
They take stress away from the chain at those moments by cushioning the transition.

That's what I was assuming, but wanted to Madge sure. The rubber seemed appropriately pliable, but crashed, etc. Anything particular to look for?

[tkent02]

I haven't ever seen ny problems no matter how old they are, as long a they are still there. On bikes without cush drive hubs, the chains last a long time anyway. It's harder on spokes, and feels more harsh, but the chain can handle it.

[bwringer]

The video didn't work for me -- it's hosted on a pretty shady site and nothing much seemed to happen.

No one has brought this up yet, but I strongly suspect the problem is that the OP has a standard unsealed roller chain -- no o-rings or x-rings.

He can expect to re-adjust it every few hundred miles, and the chain will trash the sprockets so that both will wear out in a few thousand miles. Roller chains are false economy -- the cheapest option by far is an o-ring chain and new sprockets.

Bikemaster's generic o-ring and x-ring chains aren't the absolute finest you'd want to use on a turbo Hayabusa, but they'll work fine on a 450 for many many thousands of miles with no adjustments.



Secondly, I always cringe when someone mentions chain "tension". The chain should be under NO tension -- it should have a decent amount of slack, and it's far, far better to err on the side of too much slack. Too little slack trashes chains and perhaps even engines very quickly.

[bwanna]

This is frustrating. The chain loosened up again after only about 200 miles of mostly highway riding. I tensioned it with load and well lubricated. It went from the 3/4" play to about 1.5 - 2" of play. I noticed with this that it jingled a bit from the looseness in the rollers. This is a Bikemaster 530 non O ring chain and has not been used hard.

I just ordered a JT heavy duty x-ring chain.

Btw, the sprockets both look very good with no wear.

[tkent02]

This is a Bikemaster 530 non O ring chain and has not been used hard.

It has been used VERY hard, running too tight it MUCH harder on a chain than anything abusive you can do while riding. Many times as much force on the chain than doing burnouts or wheelies or anything else. Same with the bearings in the sprocket carrier and on the countershaft, they cannot take that amount of force for very long, they are not designed for it. There is no reason to, the entire system is designed to have some slack at all times. Learn to adjust the tension correctly before the new chain gets installed, or you will ruin it just as quickly as you have ruined this one. Slack in the chain is good, it is how they are meant to be run. The instant the slack is gone you are doing damage. Don't go there.

[bwringer]

This is frustrating. The chain loosened up again after only about 200 miles of mostly highway riding. I tensioned it with load and well lubricated. It went from the 3/4" play to about 1.5 - 2" of play. I noticed with this that it jingled a bit from the looseness in the rollers. This is a Bikemaster 530 non O ring chain and has not been used hard.

I just ordered a JT heavy duty x-ring chain.

Btw, the sprockets both look very good with no wear.

Bingo -- there's your problem.

Unsealed chains are not suited for use in any road-going motorcycle. Their only use these days is on racing dirtbikes where the chain is only expected to last a few hours.

You'll be fine with an o-ring chain.

[bwanna]

It has been used VERY hard, running too tight it MUCH harder on a chain than anything abusive you can do while riding. Many times as much force on the chain than doing burnouts or wheelies or anything else. Same with the bearings in the sprocket carrier and on the countershaft, they cannot take that amount of force for very long, they are not designed for it. There is no reason to, the entire system is designed to have some slack at all times. Learn to adjust the tension correctly before the new chain gets installed, or you will ruin it just as quickly as you have ruined this one. Slack in the chain is good, it is how they are meant to be run. The instant the slack is gone you are doing damage. Don't go there.

The manual calls for 3/4" play. Are you suggesting that it too tight?

[tkent02]

The manual calls for 3/4" play. Are you suggesting that it too tight?

Way too tight, either you are measuring it wrong or the book is wrong.

A couple inches is more likely correct.

[bwanna]

Way too tight, either you are measuring it wrong or the book is wrong.

A couple inches is more likely correct.

Well I'm confident with my skills... have to admit that I was a little surprised at the specs the manual gave, but decided to follow at least for starters. Considering all that's happened and the discussions, I'll use the old rule of thumb approach... tighten just beyond sloppy slack. Usually this would be about 1.5" top to top

[tkent02]

OK, but do it at the tightest spot in the suspension's travel. Really there's no difference until it gets really loose, the chain won't come off or anything until it's crazy loose. It hurts nothing to leave it a little slack in it.

Also you must replace both sprockets at the same time as the chain, even if they don't look worn, or the new chain will fail fairly quickly as well. Good quality steel sprockets. I went through all of this many times when I was young and inexperienced. Never again.

It is so much easier to do things right and only do them once. I'm serious, I have 13,000 miles on one bike and haven't adjusted the chain once, it is still tensioned perfectly. Not easy highway miles either, this bike has been everywhere.